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100 sats \ 8 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 27 Jul \ parent \ on: The Increasing Impact of Bitcoin’s Ancient Supply bitcoin
There may well be principled exceptions to the rule but as you have stated many of these tax havens charge an entry/citizenship fee and so are purposely and inherently exclusive to those capable of paying entry and would logically appeal most to those who are wealthy and for whom it is worthwhile to pay a substantial fee for citizenship in order to avoid paying taxes in their original location.
In many cases these wealthy expats will have gained their wealth as a result of their original locations attributes and opportunities and so motives of selfishness and greed certainly are strongly implied when they flee their origins in order to avoid returning some of their profits to its source and origin.
The wealth of nations is, imo, strongly related to the strength and integrity of their governments and ultimately the loyalty and integrity of citizens.
The doco I have linked probably covers the topic in more depth than I can.
But then: if you as a government screw with your citizens (or corporations) and they leave, are they greedy and selfish for that? Are they non-free beings that are of lifelong allegiance to the state they were born (or initially formed) in?
Did you choose where you were born? I sure as hell didn't and regime change (I've lived through 3 major ones) is a thing too. What binds you to this nation state that taxes you and then squanders your contribution?
If you hate your job, you look for a better one elsewhere. And if you hate your country, you look for a better one elsewhere too. Sometimes, you suffer through a bad job for a couple of years because you'll gain experience that will help you land a better job. Same with countries. Sometimes you may need to work hard under very bad circumstances but save up and then be able to move.
Ask yourself: if you would have worked hard and saved as much as you could, in sats, since 2015, would you now, 10 years later, care about a 1-1.5 BTC (in the cheaper places) one-time tax and then you're free?
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I guess its a grey area and there are a wide range of situations and opinions on it.
But imo the most likely candidates to seek tax havens to avoid tax will be bringing wealth they gained as a result of their original citizenship and seeking to avoid returning any of that wealth to its origins.
In some cases that could be seen as selfish ungrateful greed.
In other cases it may be justified as escaping unjust and tyrannical governance.
Each situation will be different.
Personally while I do not like some of my governments actions I feel lucky to live in a country where tax funds free education, health care and universal basic support for the elderly and infirm. Where I have been successful I am happy to pay tax to support those less successful.
I believe that human wealth is based upon collective effort and taxes are a natural part of wealth building...that of course requires that we also participate in politics where we see the wrong decisions and allocations occurring, rather than opting out and re locating to somewhere we do not participate in the collective process of governance and taxation.
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I don't know about that. I've personally been able to help more others, have more (what I think good) influence on politicians, and made much more impact since I opted out than before that when I was stuck with a majority that let themselves be gaslit by false promises time after time while squandering opportunities to make things better and make that last.
I think these choices are individual ones and there is no way that as an outsider to the person that makes the decision one can truly judge. So many lives are complex and people make choices - choices that you would maybe not make - but that do not make these people inferior in any way just because they have a different perspective. If everyone was the same, life would be boring af.
So let's keep an open mind. In my experience, the majority of people that migrate have good reasons for it, and it doesn't often come lightly. These are life-changing decisions. I also know a lot of people where I feel that they're probably making a mistake. But that is for them to find out. No need to be hostile; otherwise, how will we learn?
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I agree it is a big decision to relocate to a country based upon the premise of reducing or eliminating your exposure to tax.
In some cases as I have already said it may be justified.
There is a point where government incompetence and corruption will seem beyond repair and flight is justified.
In many others though I suspect the major motives are selfish.
If you remove yourself from the economy and society which raised and enriched you to escape contributing some of your gains via taxation, you are abandoning that society to some degree for selfish motives...and your incentive to be involved in the politics of that original nation will be inherently much reduced.
I am son of an immigrant who sought a better life- away from the crippling class structure and post war decline of Britain.
Here in New Zealand he had opportunities that would have been very unlikely if not impossible to realise back in the UK.
But here in NZ we still tax progressively recognising that those who enjoy the most success from our economy are best positioned to contribute to the cost of government- there are often and increasingly loud cries from the most wealthy and their lobbyists that if we raise taxes too high they will flee somewhere else - I say good riddance to them - we do not need the selfish greedy rich pricks who refuse to acknowledge the origin of their wealth is largely in the economy and governance that enabled it. Yes they often worked hard but it was in the context of a democratic and lawful environment enjoying significant economic and cultural privilege relative to most nations of the world.
In most cases these threats are anyway hollow bluster as these peoples wealth is mostly vested in assets and property located here and not easily relocated.
But if they do choose to leave their arrogance and greed is imo, best relocated elsewhere to fester and spoil whatever locale is unfortunate enough to receive them and their kind.
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I don't know about that - I think you have much more faith in the collective power of a nation than I have, and ascribe much more success to the collective than I do.
I do strongly believe in collaboration and that we need to work together so that we can have synergies, and everything becomes easier. But I'm skeptical of governments, I don't believe democracy to be great at all - even though I am painfully aware it's the best we've got - and I'm extremely allergic to corruption.
From my perspective, the smaller the government and the smaller the burden - up to a point, the better the outcomes. However, I don't believe that achievable with democracy. As such, I've opted out. I still help people. I still care. I still even talk to politicians and help them. But, that is my choice - I don't owe anyone anything.
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I think like many on this site you underestimate the importance of government to economic outcomes.
If you study history it shows governments play a massive role in economic development and ongoing progress, or decline.
There has never been sustained wealth and prosperity without relatively good government.
Nations, like people, are ever changing and subject to changing circumstances- the competition for land, resources, capital, infrastructure and technology exists in a context of constant change.
USA has enjoyed global dominance since WW2 and benefited from its geography and distance from the warring powers of Europe. USA was built upon the opportunities for development which came with the industrial era, and the ideals which people coming from Europe sought to build a new society and economy.
Today China is becoming dominate in global trade and resource hegemony.
All other nations are to some extent subservient tribute states.
We all live in this global context- some born however into significant advantage in terms of opportunity and wealth- the majority of the world are born into autocracy and entrenched corruption.
I am in no position to judge your choices but am free to express my opinion that mostly tax havens are sought out by those who put themselves above others.
The vast majority of people globally do not have the option to relocate to a tax haven.
The vast majority do not enjoy such wealth.