TARO on lightning network \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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889 sats \ 50 comments \ @NorthKoreanHostage 10 Dec 2022 bitcoin

This is the next effort to destroy the Bitcoin supply cap by issuing "assets" on the Bitcoin Blockchain, using the lightning network.

Look, these "assets" are going to be shitcoins. Or you could call them securities, as the SEC will do. These assets will have rules that can change and will absolutely inevitably do so when it becomes profitable enough for the scammer running those assets.

TARO is absolutely going to be used by scammers and shitcoiners to use the name Bitcoin to dupe idiots into thinking their Bitcoin wrapped bullshit is the same as BTC. Do not give your precious BTC to these scammers. It is going to be the reason for the next bear market, after this one.

Please everybody understand today that BTC base layer and LN do everything you need money to be able to do. No "assets" needed.

Issuing "assets" on Bitcoin is going to falsely give investors the impression that these assets have the security of Bitcoin when they will be no more secure than any Ponzi scheme or shitcoin.

Just look at the idiots who staked their ETH and will likely NEVER be able to get it back. It is against the profitability of the Ethereum foundation to just give away billions of dollars of security value. Therefore they will never allow that staked eth to unstake or be withdrawn. They don't have the code to unstake. And they have to invest lots of energy to develop that code. And since implementing that code will cost them billions of dollars worth of ETH, they simply won't ever get around to it. They'll keep stalling until those people just go away.

It's gone. And that crypto's leader stole it from you with his ongoing scam.

Scammers make their money by you giving them BTC in exchange for some nonsense. Just don't ever give up your BTC. And don't buy anything but BTC, except for a house. And self custody your BTC.

This is how we maximize the value of our network and our money.

Do not fall for TARO assets.

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316 sats \ 2 replies \ @starbuilder 11 Dec 2022

TARO is a tool just like hammer. You can use a hammer to build a house or kill someone with it. Today people using lightning network to transact but want the value to be stable use Tether or USDC which is bad . Why not use that inside lightning network? I honestly think if we as a community do a good job in educating newbies, calling out scammers and do some self regulation then I think we can reap benefits out of it. This article explains it better: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/decentralized-bitcoin-backed-credit

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 11 Dec 2022

The article reminded me of historical descriptions of how gold deposit receipts were traded rather than the gold itself. This not so gradually evolved into fractional reserve banking, and the gold backing eventually disappeared, creating our fiat world. Why won't this happen again?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jk_14 11 Dec 2022

This.

283 sats \ 4 replies \ @jk_14 10 Dec 2022

Generally speaking, the Utility is a crucial thing which induce the price increase of something. Do I understand correctly you don't want to see Bitcoin at, let say $100k/BTC, then? ;)

64 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Dec 2022

Nope. ME MUST FUCK THE BANKS, NOT GET RICH IN SHITCOIN FIAT.

https://i.postimg.cc/dVbTcGCR/wife-not-selling.jpg

45 sats \ 2 replies \ @jk_14 11 Dec 2022

see Bitcoin at $100k != Sell

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 11 Dec 2022

that si fiat mentality. aka shitcoining.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jk_14 11 Dec 2022

no, your mentality is weak as shitcoin - if you presented above the Pavlov's dogs thinking that 100k$ / BTC immediately means: selling of Bitcoin

(it is enough that in the meantime the global hashrate will rise x10 from now and noone will sell at 100k$, just for example)

29 sats \ 3 replies \ @bitcoiner_since_2013 11 Dec 2022

Why do you say they don't have the code to unstake? They already have the code on working on test networks, current plan for them is to have it live in March 2023. They have reasons to stall and delay, but that is not a reason for you to spread misinformation.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @NorthKoreanHostage OP 11 Dec 2022

Sounds like a bet.

Alright. Which excuse are they going to use come March 2023?

A. Fuck you we don't have to. B. Hang on guys, we're really close C. Still in development

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 14 Dec 2022

I'll put up a reminder for this, lol

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bitcoiner_since_2013 12 Dec 2022

156 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Dec 2022

I have the same feeling: taro is a trap.

I think the main idea was to be used by financial institutions, companies, that want to issue some kind of financial assets, instruments etc. But not for normal users, the mortals that use sats to buy a coffee.

People have a wrong idea about Taro and think that is kind of "new money" or stablecoins, but is not. That will not stop speculators to create some kind of bullshit crap tokens with Taro and sell them later to clueless newbies, that only want to speculate.

This can go wrong in many ways. All those assets can be created with Liquid sidechain and for that was created Liquid. They can do whatever they want on a sidechain, without affecting in any way the PAYMENT NETWORK (LN).

But yeah, why we should not shit on something that start working? Let's fuck around and create a monstrosity over LN.

https://i.postimg.cc/vT1rh0y9/taro-noah.jpg

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @om 11 Dec 2022

They can do whatever they want on a sidechain, without affecting in any way the PAYMENT NETWORK (LN).

LN can in principle cross chains and I don't see why not. But I agree that assets should be issued on sidechains. Bitcoin has so many nodes to escape regulatory capture, but with a regulated issuer such as Circle that is moot and a waste of precious blockspace.

12 sats \ 1 reply \ @NorthKoreanHostage OP 10 Dec 2022

I'm glad others have figured this out. And that's what worries me because you know scammers are busy iterating away to find every possible form of scam.

It's like the future already happened if you read far enough ahead.

Now, as for the only possible benefit I see from this is running the NYSE using TARO where the stocks are traded using lightning channels, using sats for liquidity.

Now that's something that would be cool and funnel a tremendous amount of economic value into Bitcoin.

This is something I'm just now seeing for the first time and it's something I did not ever suspect until now. This might be huge if we can keep scammers away.

Is TARO how we put bananas on the Blockchain?

We just need to make sure this goes in the legit direction instead of the scam version.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Dec 2022

Always have in mind my warning... and think about "qui bono" from all that ?

https://i.postimg.cc/YC3D4pb2/vader-power-dark-side.jpg

74 sats \ 2 replies \ @8 11 Dec 2022

Non-tech pleb here. Isn’t Hyperbitcoinization about all global assets riding on Bitcoin? This is the way.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @starbuilder 11 Dec 2022

technically and mathematically not possible.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Modus 12 Dec 2022

No, hyperbitcoinization is when other currencies demonetize (lose all their monetary value) because everyone figures out they are not good at being money.

https://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/hyperbitcoinization/

42 sats \ 3 replies \ @rijndael 11 Dec 2022

People who actually use cryptocurrency as a tool want stablecoins. They’re going to exist in the world whether you want them or not. If they’re only available on other networks, then people will install and use wallets for those other networks. Id rather those people install bitcoin wallets that can use bitcoin and their stablecoin.

Also at the end of the day, taro doesn’t require consensus changes and is being built in a permissionless way. If the market finds it useful, it will grow. If the market doesn’t find it useful, it will die off.

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @NorthKoreanHostage OP 11 Dec 2022

Stablecoins aren't about useful. They are unworkable. They will always fail.

I can't believe people are just going to keep trying and failing, until I realized that this is the intentional business model: stealing other people's money. OMG they invented banks.

This is the thing Bitcoin fixes.

The market is too powerful a force for any stablecoin to counter stabilize. Depegging stablecoins is already a sport now.

Just use Bitcoin.

304 sats \ 0 replies \ @jk_14 11 Dec 2022

You know that, we know that, but some people still don't know that (or simply don't want to know that)

Bitcoin doesn't care if some asset on top of Bitcoin is failing. And that's perfectly OK.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hermit 11 Dec 2022

Thank you for your words @rijndael. People talk about educating newbies, but I think we need to start educating first world Bitcoiners on the need of the other 5 Billion people. Bitcoin is first for them and last for us.

20 sats \ 4 replies \ @TheBTCManual 11 Dec 2022

I have zero need for Taro, if I wanted fiat I would just use cash, its not as if they are running out of fiat anytime soon. alot of these protocls are Ethereum envy and stablecoins already exist if people want to use a digital cross boarder cash

Personally not a fan, but if people want it good for them and they will get bitcoin at the price they deserve

Lightning labs is a tech company so the incentive for them is to "show innovation" or they wouldn't be able to justify new rounds of funding, they're playing the fiat game

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Hermit 11 Dec 2022

Lucky you for not having the need of Taro. What about people in Venezuela, Zimbabwe, or Turkey? Did you thought about the other 5 billion people in the rest of the world?

I love cheap sats and I can wait 3 cycles for adoption, these other 5B people can't.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @TheBTCManual 12 Dec 2022

Lol I'm in South Africa, I've been to Zimbabwe, people use USD and stablecoins it works for them, they have ways and means of settlement.

Regardless if its USD or my local ZAR or ZIm dollar, settlement is settlement, what you need is a savings tech thats the missing piece, no dollars Taro or not are going to help you save, nor is putting in your local stock market

I don't see the point as an African to tell me oh use another sub par fiat currency which isn't as shit as yours, I want to use the best money and take advantage of greshams law

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Hermit 12 Dec 2022

Exactly, I think you are making my point. Theoretically with Taro, you will be able to use USD directly without the need of the stablecoin. That is stable today but we don't know if it's going to be stable tomorrow.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 12 Dec 2022

If you're pegging to a stablecoin you're pegging to certain devaluation, so i'm not following, the entire point of stablecoins in my opinion is to speed up clearing times to get into bitcoin.

If you've ever done P2P transactions you'll know what a pain they are and the premiums are pretty hefty, stablecoins use to me is to close that arbitrage

149 sats \ 0 replies \ @jk_14 10 Dec 2022

Issuing "assets" on Bitcoin is going to falsely give investors the impression that these assets have the security of Bitcoin when they will be no more secure than any Ponzi scheme or shitcoin.

Don't you see there is a significant security difference (in terms of possible Ponzi scheme) between some crappy shitcoin token and USDC token both issued on Ethereum?

People were not so dumb to think this way, and to think that both these assets inherit security in terms of Ponzi scheme - from Ethereum. Obviously the same situation will happen for any assets issued on Bitcoin (using RGB or Taro)

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @02c142fbe9 11 Dec 2022

If you think TARO is a trap, wait till you hear about Hosted Channels on Lightning.

Hosted Channels are Lightning Channels which are not backed by any layer-1 transaction, but just an IOU "Trust me bro" liquidity.

Eventually companies like Google will offer Hosted Channels which cannot be closed to receive Bitcoin, instead when you close the hosted channel you will get fiat money as a bank deposit. This is how they will make it seem there is more Bitcoin than there is Bitcoin, so as to create fiat settled Bitcoin futures so as to manipulate Bitcoin prices.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 11 Dec 2022

Hosted channels were created mainly for you, the node runner and uncle Jim, to offer to your not so techy friends and family a simple way to get on LN without a need to run a node.

But yeah some closed minds, jumped quickly into wrong conclusions, not even testing and running such hosted channels.

Run your own Hosted channels with Poncho and Cliche.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @iguano 11 Dec 2022

do you have a link about this?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @02c142fbe9 11 Dec 2022

https://fanismichalakis.fr/posts/what-are-hosted-channels/

16 sats \ 2 replies \ @_gowith 11 Dec 2022

TARO is a trap for turning lightning nodes into money service businesses. Bitcoin will no longer be an independent, stateless monetary system.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @_gowith 11 Dec 2022

And with 0conf destroyed, the monetary utility of BTC will take an enormous blow.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @badabing 11 Dec 2022

I fear this as well. Regulatory capture is around the corner.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @02f125d44e 11 Dec 2022

Taro should be used for land claims, company shares, internal/intra company debts(paper bitcoin) and thats about it. no government ious, no shitcoins, no voting bullshit. but ofcourse scammers and fraudsters going to do what they do so yeah. its whatever. stack sats.

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @iguano 11 Dec 2022

What I don't understand about the "need" of taro, is that there is already solutions existing today with the same goal, and those are on an application level, no need to protocol changes or use. Do you want synthetic dollars? use strike or bitcoin beach wallet, and problem solved. TODAY

35 sats \ 2 replies \ @rijndael 11 Dec 2022

Strike had to use tether on tron or tether on ethereum until they got local banking integration. It’s insane that to make strike work, they had to integrate tron. Wouldn’t it be better if they could build 100% on lightning?

Bitcoin beaches stablesats use a single custodial exchange

So those are better? Shitcoins and exchanges?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @iguano 11 Dec 2022

strike on tron? if you create an invoice on a LN wallet to get paid by someone that use strike, what do you think is going to be used on the background??

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @rijndael 11 Dec 2022

Strike had to use tether/tron in El Salvador for holding dollar balances until the bitcoin law passed and they could integrate with local banks.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 11 Dec 2022

The way I understand it:

Every TARO asset rides on the back of a sat. If you don’t have sats to move the fiat token/credit it doesn’t go anywhere. Stifling innovation isn’t the way. Scammers and shitcoiners will always exist.

If TARO can increase goods, services, productivity, transactions, and easily convert those surpluses to sats for long term savings on a global scale I’m all for it.

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @Condetiv 10 Dec 2022

Word.

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @031ba3a118 11 Dec 2022

can someone explain the difference between taro and cashu? And why Taro is the center of attention if both services introduce some third party custodian with the ability to mint new coins?

161 sats \ 0 replies \ @02c142fbe9 11 Dec 2022

Taro allows layer-1 shitcoins on the Bitcoin blockchain, and layer-2 shitcoins on the Lightning Network. Taro can have "wrapped" Bitcoin which is often only "wrapped" in a trust-me-bro sense. i.e. somebody holds your Bitcoin, and gives you another Taro token on the Bitcoin blockchain, and then you will be transacting with this wrapped Bitcoin on the Bitcoin blockchain until the company that wrapped your Bitcoin goes bankrupt.

Sure it will not happen in a rational world, but I predict there will be entities that entice useful idiots into buying wrapped Bitcoin by saying it will provide an interest rate in some stablecoin.

Cashu, and Fedimint allows fraction reserve banking also just like Taro above. So I do not know which one should we avoid as of now, because both can and will have bad actors.

It will muddy the CFTC/SEC separation of powers even further.

But the market has a proven demand for flexible money supply so all these fake shitcoins will be invented.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 13 Dec 2022

https://i.postimg.cc/fLtQ87dj/taro.jpg

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @newnym 12 Dec 2022

Taro: "bitcoin is cool, but imagine how much cooler it would be if you could have fiat on it"

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hermit 11 Dec 2022

Maybe I have a different sense on how markets work. In the markets of my reality, if those assets on Taro are the shit you are talking about, people won't use them. If they provide some utility they will. Pretty simple.

Is very different than the shitcoins that are scamming people with promises.

Do you want innovation to stop? Hope you have a deep technical understanding of Taro and worldwide finances to say what you are saying.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 11 Dec 2022

One use case is a global monetary standard. TARO usage has many use cases in developing countries. We need to consider those use cases and more importantly people. Bitcoin isn’t just for the West it’s for ALL! Bitcoin is all about that base no treble… base layer that is!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @NorthKoreanHostage OP 11 Dec 2022

Wut?

Why do developing countries need something less good than Bitcoin?

You just need a cell phone for layer 1 BTC. Developing countries already have these.

Giving governments shitcoin CBDCs on top of Bitcoin is extremely disingenuous. Those organisations controlling the TARO "assets" will still run like banks, who's job it is to steal from it's users.