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200 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 29 Jun \ on: Peter Thiel x Ross Douthat conversation tech
Thanks @Car. Starting to listen to this now. My thoughts on Thiel are not massive but I have heard so much negative about him and I think a lot of it is missing a few key things.
But before I outline these I do want to say that we should be very concerned about people like Thiel how have massive wealth, power, and influence. Thiel may or may not be a malicious actor but it is naive to blindly trust people like him or Musk. It is also naive to blindly trust the faceless state, democracy, or whatever you wanna call the US system, EU system, or any state system.
The takes on Thiel usually fall into two categories. The black pill types that talk about Palantir in dystopian tones. Its a fair concern that I share. The other position is more of a concern that he's right wing and has all this power. This take is mostly that he's not on their team.
Thiel has long called himself a libertarian and he seems to be a beltway libertarian. One that wants to privatize many functions of the state. Primarily his focus is military and intel. This is a VERY common position within libertarian and anarcho-capitalist thought.
A straw-man argument against libertarianism is that it is naive. This is largely from people that have never seriously read on the topic and have only chatted with lightweights online that haven't read the deeper thinkers. Many in the movement understand that there is a need for security services like policing and military defense. This is true of a night watchman state or a stateless society. Of course if a group of people have no means of defense they would just fall to a state with the means to take them over.
I don't want to go into all the details but the common view is that a post state world would have these functions performed by corporations or co-ops (volunteers). I think this is where Thiel is coming from.
Just as in the US our food supply is provided in a largely decentralized private market way vs the USSR which was centrally planned in a post state country you'd likely have markets for defense, possibly managed by insurance companies . There are many books on these topics.
With all that said, any person with the wealth, power, and influence like Thiel should not be trusted. But we shouldn't trust the state either. No matter who is at the top of it.
Thanks @Car. Starting to listen to this now. My thoughts on Thiel are not massive but I have heard so much negative about him and I think a lot of it is missing a few key things.
Me too, he is someone over time, I have realized has been proven right more than wrong irregardless how much people disagree with him. I respect a man who shares his opinion whole heartedly in the face of critics and refuses to back away from it. Not to say he is always right but it now makes me pay attention more when he does speak.
But before I outline these I do want to say that we should be very concerned about people like Thiel how have massive wealth, power, and influence. Thiel may or may not be a malicious actor but it is naive to blindly trust people like him or Musk. It is also naive to blindly trust the faceless state, democracy, or whatever you wanna call the US system, EU system, or any state system.
100% I believe its unsure until I meet the man and get to know him personally will I ever know if he looks as religion as nothing other than optional. I get the feeling a lot of what we are seeing these days in Silicon Valley and other areas is that type of check box to Christianity. It's the same type of check box they view the Republican party right now because it is that type of populist movement happening around the world. This is just an observation not to be taken as a slight or jab at anyone reading this, we all walk our individual paths towards God.
The takes on Thiel usually fall into two categories. The black pill types that talk about Palantir in dystopian tones. Its a fair concern that I share. The other position is more of a concern that he's right wing and has all this power. This take is mostly that he's not on their team.
Exactly I don't think that matters as much when everyone at his level is playing the same game with the same type of artillery. It just shows more he is the outcast not playing by their rules, lol kinda hilarious tbh...wonder what he did to piss them off. Again this is just me probably reading too much into it maybe.
Thiel has long called himself a libertarian and he seems to be a beltway libertarian. One that wants to privatize many functions of the state. Primarily his focus is military and intel. This is a VERY common position within libertarian and anarcho-capitalist thought.
Yup, I am well aware of incrementalism. Seen my fair share of these types in Austin.
A straw-man argument against libertarianism is that it is naive. This is largely from people that have never seriously read on the topic and have only chatted with lightweights online that haven't read the deeper thinkers. Many in the movement understand that there is a need for security services like policing and military defense. This is true of a night watchman state or a stateless society. Of course if a group of people have no means of defense they would just fall to a state with the means to take them over.
I am not the one to discuss about this particular topic with better with @justin_shocknet or even @Undisciplined hopefully you do not mind bringing them into our discussion. They are very respectful of challenging our beliefs and assumptions from an ideas perspective in the search of perceived truth.
I don't want to go into all the details but the common view is that a post state world would have these functions performed by corporations or co-ops (volunteers). I think this is where Thiel is coming from.
Interesting take, I believe the interview should have gone on much longer, he much be better having this discussion on a Stacker News AMA to be completely honest. He would get a much more receptive intelligent conversation to be had.
Just as in the US our food supply is provided in a largely decentralized private market way vs the USSR which was centrally planned in a post state country you'd likely have markets for defense, possibly managed by insurance companies . There are many books on these topics.
One of the many blessings we take for granted in America. Gosh had no idea, needed to hear that, thanks for sharing.
With all that said, any person with the wealth, power, and influence like Thiel should not be trusted. But we shouldn't trust the state either. No matter who is at the top of it.
You are right he holds a lot of influence. Like my friend @futurepaul says, trust is a scaling solution, so just have to make sure that trust is at a certain level at all times.
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I had this sitting in a tab for two days, because I wanted to respond, but it looked long and I didn't feel like reading that much.
Ultimately, though, @kepford already knows full well my views on these things and they're almost identical to his. It's a fascinating topic that really is best served in detail, as you elude to.
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