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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Tristan OP 17 Oct 2024 \ on: Bitcoin’s Scalable Future: How Collateralized Credit Cards Will Drive Adoption bitcoin
@supertestnet what do you think?
This is a great list.
That said I shouldn’t have to search on where I can use Bitcoin, it causes friction.
some banksters will hold BTC
BitEscrow is non-custodial.
Anyway man, I enjoyed our conversation. Obviously we have different views and goals and I’m not changing your mind. I encourage you to check out our source code and what we built.
That’s too harsh a leap. They aren’t going to abandon their habits overnight. We can talk all day about ideals, but the fact is, the average person isn’t ready to ditch fiat entirely—yet.
Godspeed.
Bitcoin will NEVER work if you try to "integrate" it into existing financial systems.
Yup
Bitcoin will ERASE and make obsolete all those systems, changing totally the people's mindset.
It can't be overnight
Listen, I get where you’re coming from. Using Bitcoin and relying on fiat rails can feel like a contradiction, especially for hardcore maxis like you.
But let’s be real about the current state of adoption and infrastructure. If the goal is to bring Bitcoin to the masses, we have to acknowledge that most people aren’t ready to completely let go of fiat money, let alone the systems. They’re familiar, ingrained in daily life, and work with existing habits like credit card usage. The idea behind Bitcoin as collateral is to bridge this gap for the average person.
What you’re getting with a Bitcoin-backed credit card isn’t fiat in the way you might think. You’re using Bitcoin as collateral, allowing you to spend against it without selling it or converting it to fiat. The goal isn’t to stay tied to fiat forever, but to use a tool people are already familiar with (credit cards) to drive Bitcoin’s real-world use at scale. It’s modular, scalable, and doesn’t force people into complicated technology right away.
The world isn’t ready for a Bitcoin-only economy yet, but we can’t let that hold us back. Using Bitcoin as collateral is a good way to get started.
Example: Mutiny wallet. An AMAZING wallet. It was perfectly aligned to the ethos of everything Bitcoin. Love the team and product. But it did not get adopted by the average person.
The average person may have heard of Bitcoin, maybe they have some Bitcoin in Coinbase, but they have definitely not heard of the Lightning network. But they already have a credit card.
The goal is to gradually reduce reliance on fiat as Bitcoin becomes central to the financial system.
sats must flow in order for sats economy to exist
Totally agree. Not against this whatsoever.
However, this flow needs to be practical and accessible for the average person, not just Bitcoin enthusiasts within a small, trusted group. One of the main, if not the biggest barrier we face today isn’t just fear of spending sats due to politics or price volatility, it’s the fact that using sats for everyday transactions is still more complicated than swiping a card. It is still a novel event someone will tweet about.
People will adopt what is easy and familiar. For Bitcoin to truly thrive as a global economy, we need to integrate it into everyday life in ways that don’t require people to change their habits as a means to an end for full adoption. Whether this is lightning or some better solution in the future is up to the builders and how well they can sell it.
Our goals may differ, but my end goal is for the average person to use Bitcoin as a bridge to escape fiat. It is a means to an end.
giving them away to Saylor in exchange for crap fiat ?
No one said anything about Saylor, it seems you didn't read the article I wrote. You can use BitEscrow to deposit them into a contract.
I have been building it for 3 years with my CTO so that you don't have to use a bank at all. BitEscrow is noncustodial and open source. I encourage you to have an open mind and check it out.
My Vision is the following:
- Deposit Bitcoin into a contract from any source you want; it's your money. This can be from Coinbase or wherever else.
- Hey THIRDPARTY I have 1 Bitcoin in a non-custodial deposit account, can I get a credit card backed by that? Or a loan in fiat? (anything else you can imagine)
- Let's assume it's a credit card: "sure thing, here you go. This card works at any point of sale, by the way!"
- you are now using the existing rails of fiat to use Bitcoin.
What do you think? I really encourage you to think about the implications of Bitcoin as collateral.
Furthermore, I don't think very highly of Saylor. His lack of contributions to developers is disappointing.
I think you misunderstood a bit - I believe it is more so about liquidity. I am not promoting the idea of debt whatsoever, nor will I ever.
Bitcoin-backed credit cards will let users leverage their Bitcoin without selling it, providing flexibility, not irresponsible debt. This solves the conflicting narratives Bitcoin twitter has:
- NEVER Sell your Bitcoin!
- It is also the future of money.
Someone can use their Bitcoin more effectively while retaining ownership. This also helps avoid the onchain fees in the future when they skyrocket - onchain transactions will be novel. The aim isn’t to inflate debt or diminish savings, but to make Bitcoin spending more accessible without forcing radical behavioral shifts for the average person.
Adoption tech will become simpler and simpler over the time.
I totally agree. There is a lot to build. Until then, this is a good buffer between the switch from Bitcoin to Fiat. Is this not adoption tech?
The same way we'll jump on to some simpler solution for running out own node one day.
The thing is that this statement is for the average Bitcoiner in mind, not the average person. I hope I am wrong and nodes become as common as the iPhone.
How is it bullshit?
That means to perpetuate the use of fiat, not Bitcoin adoption.
How so? What does adoption look like to you at scale with onchain fees? What about lightning infrastructure? Developer adoption? VCs funding these tools? Developer education? Is it so bad if we used fiat as a bridge to onboard millions to Bitcoin?
The end goal is to onboard to people to LN Wallets and such, but until then, this is the next best thing imo. The closest thing we have to this today is people using cash app, but even then, how many people USE the Bitcoin they bought?
fiat maxi
Definitely not. This is a very realistic future.
If Bitcoin is the future of money, we have to USE it.
but it certainly looks like it's true considering the state of all the products in the space.
Because of this, I believe that this causes the average person to be overwhelmed with choices. People are overwhelmed with too many choices and gravitate towards easy, frictionless solutions.
Eventually, I think the average person will run their own nodes.
Maybe. If it is installed as an application on Desktop PCs, sure. In a perfect world, everyone would want to run a node, but convincing them on why they should instead of using something easy + custodial is a challenge.
The reality is that the average Bitcoiner is onboarding their grandma, parents, or friends to an umbrel, perhaps without understanding why. Even if they are onboarded and set up, now they have the other challenge, which is to use it without making it a novel event.
"Look honey, I sent some Bitcoins!"
Technology adoption is one thing, but the average person has already adopted the financial credit card habitually, so why fix something that isn't (too) broken?
The cost of the learning is very high right now but eventually it won't be.
I agree, but my proposal is that with BTC Collateralized credit cards, they won’t have to learn anything new; if they do, it will be very minimal.