Have I attacked western efforts to reshore manufacturing?

Or is that assertion just another bullshit coated and blatantly dishonest out of context misrepresentation of what I have said seeking to discredit me, the messenger, because you cannot credibly refute what I have actually and in truth said?

I have supported that claim multiple times with facts- none of those supporting arguments have ever been refuted. Do you even know what my supporting arguments are? If you can refute them credibly I would be most impressed...otherwise you perhaps have not even considered them...in your haste to dismiss this perhaps frightening topic.

China dominating global trade in manufactured goods and commodities is not relevant to Bitcoin or SN more generally? Really? I would not agree. SNs as a Bitcoin based and strongly Libertarian forum is imo an ideal place to raise the issue of Chinas economic and global rise. It raises many interesting, relevant and challenging issues for Libertarians and Bitcoiners.

'As Yuval Levin of the American Enterprise Institute put it in his book “American Covenant” (2024), “The breakdown of political culture in our day is not a function of our having forgotten how to agree with each other but of our having forgotten how to disagree constructively.” Disagreeing constructively requires that you first consider the arguments with which you purport to disagree.'

You have claimed first up that you lived in China for 15 years - so that is a substantial amount of first hand experience, if true. None of your subsequent comments evidence any direct and detailed personal experience or knowledge of modern China so maybe it was a false claim.

However since when exactly do we need to be experts to discuss any topic??? Is freedom of speech and the contest of ideas it enables not still operative???

I welcome any constructive contribution to this debate - but am constantly amazed and disappointed that almost none has occurred, but still remain optimistic and a believer in the power of freedom of speech to both raise issues and increase knowledge and understanding and ultimately potentially lead to solutions.

Already I believe it has been established there is a huge chasm of denial and fear around this topic and that in itself motivates me to raise it more, rather than be silenced by people demanding silence and ignorance.

'As Yuval Levin of the American Enterprise Institute put it in his book “American Covenant” (2024),

“The breakdown of political culture in our day is not a function of our having forgotten how to agree with each other but of our having forgotten how to disagree constructively.”

Disagreeing constructively requires that you first consider the arguments with which you purport to disagree.'

Yes because almost exclusively the response is denial and evasion of any serious discussion of the issue. That motivates me and indicates to me that there is a real problem here.

Not here to propose solutions. Here to raise the issue and gauge the response...so far it is almost exclusively the sort of inane evasion and denial you have shown. Have not made any claims you have demonstrated to be 'bold' and so you again make false assertions.

It is absurd to say the field is too complex for us to discuss and debate- that is just another form of evasion- a complete and utter cop out.

Have not claimed to know how this will play out either (yet another misrepresentation that you infer) - just that it is an issue that deserves serious consideration and discussion and debate. I would say with some confidence that denial that there is a problem when there clearly is one is one hell of a good way to allow that problem to grow bigger rather than finding any possible logical responses and solutions. The first step toward solving most problems is acknowledging they exist!

One advantage the west has is presumably freedom of speech, and thought- though the response to date - you could have fooled me!

This is an existential challenge to the wests hegemony, wealth and power- and you dismiss it as 'too complex' to discuss. Absurd and again outright evasion. Rather ironically given your references to Chinese cultures 'saving face' tendency, you appear to exhibit very much a similar pride and inability to face up to what is a humbling challenge we face.

Perhaps the west is blinded by its arrogance accumulated over 500 years of global hegemony?

Just the sort of flippant Trumpian answer I have come to expect.

Typical of the inability to acknowledge and respond to this issue in a reasonable considered way that exercises the constructive potential of freedom of speech and contest of ideas.

Instead of acknowledging the facts and issues raised you avoid them via parody. You thereby concede defeat in terms of a contest of ideas, by defaulting to trollery.

Your inability to respond in a credible reasoned manner is just further evidence of the problem I have raised.

Again you do exactly what a CCP Bot might logically be expected to do - to disrupt any attempt to discuss and raise awareness of these issues.

I am well aware of the Chinese and Asian culture of 'face'. That cultural difference to the west, is as you must be aware if you did spend more than a decade in China, just one of many significant differences in the Chinese world view which can lead to misunderstanding and error on the part of westerners looking at China. I traded extensively with Chinese merchants and businesses for over a decade and learned some of the differences in culture which it seems very few westerners understand. But none of these differences lessen the potential threat China poses- quite the opposite- they often obscure and cloud the view mist in the west have of China to one of ignorance, misunderstanding and fear. The Yellow Peril hysteria of more than a century ago is just one example.

And certainly the culture of 'face' extends to Chinese media coverage and portrayal- but I rely almost entirely upon the views and reports of western media and westerners who have experience in China such as those I have given above already.

Another excellent source I would refer to is Peter Hesslers books on China written during his time living there from the mid 1990s until the mid 2000s. Though now maybe a little dated they do nothing to refute my thesis. In fact since Hessler left China and Xi rose to power the direction of Chinas advance has become significantly more aggressive, overt and direct as a challenge to the west.

I have already provided several up to date and contemporary warnings - from people who have lived in China and who have verifiable credentials and who are warning us of what they see as a credible and real threat and challenge coming from China today...you have refuted nothing of the substance what they have said...you have not even acknowledged it.

This is how the Jewish bankers cartel enslave most people and governments including the US.

It is clear that China has won the trade war- it is already dominant in global trade and supply chains as Trump has realised belatedly how dependent the US is on Chinese supply chains- the Chinese can and are calling the shots- if Trump wants the rare earths essential to US military and manufacturing. China has enjoyed incredible economic growth and is now challenging US hegemony.

Stating these facts seems to get a lot of people very defensive...but I do not see how it is untrue or exaggerated as many more informed authorities than me are now also saying much the same thing. The previous US ambassador to the US for example. #1224678 And the above article this post is based on that reports Chinas growing military power and confidence. Have you read that article? Or the one about Ambassador Burns and his concerns?

Would be interesting to hear what facts, opinions and judgements you have based on the 15 years you claim to have lived in China but am also more concerned with credible and verifiable news sources than anecdotes and unverifiable, unsourced opinions.

Naturally this whole topic is very difficult for Libertarians and US exceptionalists who struggle to even believe China and the CCP could be a real threat to the extraordinary privilege and wealth that the US has come to expect and depend upon. Because it highlights US hypocrisy and imperialism and because it shatters many of the myths and delusions that have grown up around the US and its wealth, power and privilege.

I am personally no more in favour of Chinese hegemony than US hegemony ~ having lived mostly in the west and its culture I am more comfortable in western culture than Chinese, but rather believe that all manifestations of power tend to corrupt and absolute power, even more so.

I also believe, given the almost universal denial of these issues by participants on Stacker News that there is a significant amount of denial around this issue and that denial in term is a real threat to the security of the west. Its like people cannot see whats happening and these reports I have highlighted from well informed experts including the two linked above reinforce this apprehension.

Please feel free to respond and assuage my concerns for the security of western civilisation with something more credible than off hand flippant denial that there is a problem when the quoted sources above say there is a very real and imminent danger!

BTW Your graph showing millionaire migration shows most leave from the US, followed by China- China today daily produces more millionaires than the US yet still a lot more flee the US- probably due to the increasing instability in the US and taxes...and the attractive allure of places like the UAE with their low taxes.

China bull? Just dealing with reality- are you?

Do they? Do you have evidence that emigration from China is higher than other similar countries? Certainly the average income on China is still lower than most western nations but pay rates in nearly all sectors of China are rising far more quickly than in the west.

With Chinas undeniable economic development it is natural and unavoidable that a lot of Chinese do move to work in other countries as opportunities expand but a lot of that is part of Chinas expanding importance in the global economy.

A lot of Chinese also travel abroad to work and train and gain skills as do people from most developed economies- this is normal and advantageous to those with the aptitude and wealth to do this and ultimately benefits both individuals and economies of China and other nations. Look at the engineering and scientific faculties of many western universities and many of the faces are now Chinese. Chinese value skills and wealth accumulation just like all people do- perhaps more so! A lot of Chinas economic growth is based upon gaining scientific and commercial expertise from global sources and experience.

There are far more millionaires and billionaires created every day in China than in the US.

I am curious why so many Libertarians struggle to understand that the Chinese economy is growing at a rate far exceeding the US. Is it because you have an irrational belief that a pure free market generates superior wealth than a mixed economy?

Even though the US economy is far from a free market and is now imposing unprecedented levels of trade obstruction across the board on trading partners. US wealth is hugely reliant upon its exceptional privilege of being the reserve currency issuer but that privilege looks increasingly fragile as demand for USTs declines rapidly.

Do you struggle with accepting that the US is losing its global dominance and the wealth and power that derived from that?

As much as the government has control over the economy Trump is attempting to seize the total of that control...

It is not difficult to find someone with a stack that is not kyced and who wants to sell down- they have often held for a long time since acquiring before kyc was widespread. Then set up regular sales and grow your stack free of kyc and platform fees and margins. Why do so few 'sovereign' individuals do this? Because it requires a little effort? Freedom is not always convenient but it is a worthwhile investment.

All the tertiary level monetary leverage and debasement cannot rescue an economy that has for decades ignored investment in productive infrastructure, skills and machinery. China now builds robots, PVs and lithium batteries at half the cost any competitor can and produces nearly all the refined rare earths. The west got deluded that financialisation creates wealth when it is productivity of goods and services that creates real wealth and prosperity. The US has lost control of so many strategic supply chains it is now subservient to China. The debt bomb that has been built up over 4 decades of neoliberal financialisation is now reaching critical mass and if interest rates on USTs go over 5% it implodes. Rate cuts and tariffs cannot fix the structural damage of 4 decades of neoliberal voodoo economics.

Hilarious and tragic how you repeatedly resort to name calling and grossly misrepresenting those who present facts and ideas that you do not like but cannot credibly refute with a reasoned argument.

It is a sign of weakness and insecurity more than anything else.

My acknowledgement of Chinas economic success is not propaganda or endorsement it is simply recognising that they are advancing their economic development to a point where the west generally and the US in particular face the possible end of their centuries of global dominance. That prospect is probably just as disconcerting to me as it might be to you- but recognising it is the first requirement to responding to it.

The former US ambassador to China agrees with me on the reality of Chinas threat to US hegemony.

So do others with extensive experience in China...

If I was a CCP bot I would be much more likely to be voicing the sort of denial of reality that you are pushing - discounting that China is any real threat to the west...

Maybe a good idea to set up a password on your coinos account...

Most nations are still monetarily and militarily subservient tribute states to the US. There is however a growing alliance of nations increasingly openly challenging US military and monetary hegemony. Since Roman times if not before monetary and military hegemony have usually gone together...along with dominance in trade. The US gained global dominance post WW2 and after the fall of the Berlin Wall that dominance transformed into unopposed global hegemony.

But today China is now challenging US monetary and military hegemony- building up a stronger military and increasingly aligning with nationed sanctioned out of the USD SWIFT trade payments system. China is now too important in global trade for the US to sanction or exclude directly- when the US tried to impose tariffs China responded by cutting off the supply of rare earths that the US needs for its military and high tech manufacturing.

There is a widespread and tragic denial in the west of the powerful position China now occupies in global trade. It is hard for US Exceptionalists to understand let alone accept how China has come to enjoy such a dominant position because they do not understand the central importance of governments in the creation of the wealth of nations...they seem blind to the repeated, numerous and continued projections of power the US government has orchestrated during its time of global dominance.

China is very unlikely to adopt Bitcoin for trade payments- it has already built its CBDC and the CIPS and mBridge digital trade payments platforms which provide trade payments outside of the USD/SWIFT network. As the USD/SWIFT protocol declines the Chinese protocols become increasingly important.

No major nation can now afford not to trade with China- including the US. The era of US hegemony is waning.

As the US empire declines Bitcoin is likely to be a useful neutral safe haven asset but international trade is now so strongly dominated by China it is hard to see Bitcoin being used for trade payments in a major way. Bitcoin might be more useful as a reserve for central banks wanting neutrality from US and Chinese spheres and protocols and if enough neutral nations central banks come to hold Bitcoin it could possibly be used for trade payments between them.

Cryptocurrencies are moderately sanctionable because they are DINO.

Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency that can be considered highly resistant to sanctions.

Even gold can be impacted by localised sanctions in some cases for example Order 6102 although it is arguable whether the US could freeze gold reserves held by any nations central bank as it would require it to block the transfer of that gold to any other entity.

Your style of response is quite provocative and will inevitably tend to generate negative possibly hateful responses. Do you understand why?