It should happen automatically once enough nodes upgrade, set their fees, and implementations tweak their pathfinding algorithms. I think lnd has already done it, so we just have to wait a bit.

No, see #526912

I don't know lndg.

OK, this was fun while it lasted. Now Bee Tee See joined the (small) group, congratulations on second place!

These two channels (to bfx-lnd0 and bfx-lnd1) offer -100ppm:

I agreed three years ago: https://github.com/lightning/bolts/issues/835#issuecomment-839948788 :)

I'd like to tweak my toolset (rebalance-lnd, lnd-manageJ, some scripts) so that they are able to work with negative inbound fees. Furthermore, I'd like to get my feet wet and learn how I can optimize my routing node c-otto.de to offer negative inbound fees where appropriate.

Progress: #527580

I put the sats I got for this post to good use and started a (mainnet) test node running lnd v0.18.0-beta.rc1. With this node, I'm opening a channel to my main node (c-otto.de), so that I can configure inbound fees for this channel.

Node pubkey: 025cd50e55b969a418e713b70076333ba1e25929e9e6ec5b937c30a8edc85cc82b

Tor address: 025cd50e55b969a418e713b70076333ba1e25929e9e6ec5b937c30a8edc85cc82b@rpzxlbqkb46r2owiutm6rcndrllcgc3zhxgtjjrlc4wnqkbk4ggwg7yd.onion:9735

Channel open transaction (pending): https://mempool.space/tx/4b418cc13349e5ac65dd5b579bc382a1b510dd06cf6dd03af5a89d73c0b826e8

Alias: "lnd v0.18.0-beta.rc1"

If you want to open a channel to this node, please let me know, so that I can connect to your node - or just open a channel yourself after connecting via tor.

Disclaimer: this node will be down most of the time, and I'll close all channels once I'm done testing.

Yes. Let's say I'm X, with channels to A and Z. If A usually receives payments, like LOOP and some exchanges, I tend to charge a high fee rate towards A. And, because the sats tend to flow towards A, I have to do some trickery (like rebalancing) to keep enough sats on my side.

With negative inbound fees (from A to my node X) I can encourage the rest of the network to use the edge A->X because it makes the whole payment cheaper. If the destination is Z, the negative fee rate A->X reduces the overall fee one has to pay for A->X->Z. If, for example, I charge 1000ppm for X->Z and set a negative inbound fee rate of -200ppm for A->X, the total route A->X->Z only costs 800ppm instead of 1000ppm (plus whatever A charges to reach my node X, but this cost is the same with or without negative inbound fees).

I already know that much. Which node is it (pubkey)? Which routes do payments take (towards the end, when reaching Coinbase/Lightspark)?

I did. It's the first/only post in ~lightning.

Not perfect, though. Here's more work (scheduled for 0.18.1): https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/8680

This seems to be limited to the USA, though

FYI: The second ("or") part is what a watchtower in the lightning network does.

I feel you. As a kid, I ran into a tree. That hurt. They might be real, but I don't trust them.

Yeah, I can buy chocolate with Euros. And beer. I guess it depends where you are, though. I'm in Europe.

I don't believe in Dollars.

I'm not a fan of stereotypes. And I didn't have the intention to mute this person. Despite the lack of the explicit reference you mentioned, I still believe that this website works by having English posts only (aside from dedicated sub-areas). You don't have to agree with me, though, but I'd say it's rather obvious that "we speak English" is a rather good description of the current state of this website.

I wanted to tell the author that this website is intended for English posts - which is roughly what I wrote in Spanish in my first comment.