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@yo2xncv0
stacking since: #227859
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 23 Feb \ parent \ on: Super Testnet on Lightning vs Monero Privacy (Bitcoin Takeover Podcast S16 E6) bitcoin
exactly lmfao
Ironically Bitcoin is less censorship resistant than it could be because it isn't private.
Miners have the ability to censor individual transactions and form targeted blacklists. Wouldn't be possible to even attempt this if it was private.
Because they're wrapped up in an ideology so aren't thinking clearly
It's not surprising that Bitcoin maxis are calling something other than Bitcoin a shitcoin. What is surprising is Monero is probably the only other cryptocurrency that many of them give a pass to, actually use, or respect even if they don't use it:
"Monero is a very good privacy complement to Bitcoin" -Nick Szabo
"I looked at all the other major cryptocurrencies that had adjustable blocksizes and the only one that I thought that didn't completely suck was Monero" -Jameson Lopp
"Maybe you need a Monero" -Michael Saylor
"For really strong privacy, Monero is much better" -Andreas Antonopoulos
"There's a lot of advantages to using Monero" -Matt Odell
"Monero is the only goddamn currency that's used!" -John McAfee
"Monero will be a champion in that space and we'll have a Bitcoin-Monero duopoly" -Max Keiser
"All fiat systems and all tokens outside of Bitcoin and monero (to my knowledge) have middlemen you cannot get rid of" -Adam Curry
"I would say Monero is not a shitcoin. I think it's a very innovative and new research project that works." -Max Hillbrand
"Monero; Just use it. Objectively it's better than Bitcoin [for privacy]...it's obvious" -Amir Taaki
"Monero is closer to our hearts than whatever Bitcoin is turning into today" -Samourai Wallet
"Bitcoin is the reserve currency. Hold it. Privacy coins are transactional privacy. Use them...Monero" -Balaji
"99% of cryptocurrencies are complete and total garbage, but even among the upper echeleon of real ones, Monero is in the top percentile, so it deserves our respect" -Paul Sztorc
"Surprising number of Monero lovers on #Nostr. It’s the only altcoin that I consider has a community of actual cypherpunks with similarly aligned values as bitcoin." -Guy Swann
"Monero has always been the altcoin outlier for me, never a shitcoin because I have a valid use for it that I can't achieve with #bitcoin." -Peter McCormack
"I have an issue when Bitcoiners get so closed-minded and says Moneros a shitcoin. No it's not. There's some brilliant people there and there's a lot to learn...I'm a fan of Monero." -Nicholas Gregory of Mercury Layer
"monero is the best of all Altcoins" -Calle
"To me Monero is the litmus test in Bitcoin...Monero is such a good money just technically" -Ragnar Lifthrasir of Guns N Bitcoin
"There are altcoins out there that have interesting ideas, but they are very very rare...if a couple altcoins exist, like Monero, where they actually have an interesting idea and a different model that's fine." -Peter Todd
"Monero is doing the job that gave btc its start." -Ray Youssef
I've been using RetoSwap since it first appeared on the scene (around May of last year) and it's only gotten better with time. I use it somewhat regularly and have had zero problems and haven't heard anyone who really has for whatever that is worth. They have a SimpleX groupchat on their website too if you want to ask questions or see whats going on.
Spent a few hours getting it up to date lmao. Glad you like it. Hope someone finds it useful.
Anyone reading this add anything I missed in the comments I'm sure I missed quite a few things.
Don't let these other people in your comments bully away your intellectual curiosity. They're tards. Vast majority of cryptocurrency is garbage, but there are a few cryptocurrencies that are legit and better at certain things, or able to do things that Bitcoin simply can't right now, and may possibly never be able to do.
For example Monero is great for private on-chain transactions and clearly better than Bitcoin at that and probably one of the only cryptocurrencies that gets a pass from many Bitcoiners even if they still think it's a "shitcoin". You don't have to use Monero as a "store of value" to take advantage of it's transactional privacy.
The onus should be on the original people claiming that Monero was traced, but ok I'll play the game.
All articles about the arrests mention credit card fraud and the Mercari e-commerce platform in connection to how they were caught (or give no details at all on how they "traced" Monero):
https://u.today/100-million-yen-crypto-scam-exposed-via-monero-xmr-data-in-japan-organizer-arrested
https://regtechtimes.com/18-caught-in-monero-money-laundering-scheme-in/
https://www.perigon.io/news/finance/2024/10/21/japan-arrests-18-monero-fraud-case
https://cryptoslate.com/japanese-authorities-dismantle-monero-linked-scam-in-landmark-investigation/
Your tool doesn't "automatically eliminates every decoy spender and heuristically identifies the real spender". It's all manual guessing. It's a glorified Monero block explorer that you added buttons onto.
Some LN custodians and LSPs have really good privacy policies
You must be kidding. Privacy policies? Lol
You talk about encryption on P2P Lightning traffic as if it applies to the vast majority of Lightning users on custodians and LSPs. Using a remote Monero node reveals far less data to 3rd parties than custodial LN or LSPs, enforced by encryption (not privacy policies), and all without giving up custody to ecash mints.
Like I said the remote node can't see amounts, addresses, balances, true spend, etc:
https://localmonero.co/knowledge/remote-nodes-privacy
You're correct FCMP isn't currently on Monero, but should be relatively soon. I thought he was saying Monero was the best privacy tool currently available, relative to everything else, and with the most adoption and clear direction.
It has potential edge case attacks, but it is not naively traceable.
Those criminals were caught in your first link because of the fiat on/off ramps they were using and feds in their groupchat. Nothing to do with Monero.
Your tool doesn't deterministically "trace" anything. All it does is let's you see the Monero blockchain which you can already do with any Monero block explorer:
https://www.p2pool.io/explorer/
A chain analysis company is claiming to "trace" Monero without evidence and that doesn't give you pause or see a conflict of interest in that? Or maybe a generous way of using the word "trace"?
From your own article:
“It is extremely unlikely that Ciphertrace can trace Monero to the remote extent that they can trace any other coin"
I do think Lightning privacy is better than on-chain Bitcoin and can be used with strong privacy, but that bar is obviously higher than using Monero at the moment as vast majority are using custodians and LSPs which both diminish Lightnings privacy guarantees.
Using a remote node on Monero, behind Tor/VPN, is much more accessible. You don't have to give up custody like LN custodians, or the same degree of privacy as LSPs. And malicious remote nodes can't see amounts, addresses, balances, etc:
https://localmonero.co/knowledge/remote-nodes-privacy
Using Liquid cross chain with LN (onion routing) solves those issues.
Not really. LN changes nothing about traceability on Liquid itself. And at that point you might as well get rid of Liquid and just use Lightning.
There is no way you can have both "hidden amounts" and "provable supply cap". The entire reason Liquid opted not to hide amounts was to avoid this issue.
Liquid does hide amounts
In fact, a legitimate website or company would be barred from accepting monero because of the regulatory risk involved
There's plenty of legitimate white market businesses that accept Monero like Coincards, Mullvad, Silent Link, etc. Too many to even list:
https://monerica.com/
The entire benefit of Liquid+LN combo is that you have gained the confidential aspects but are still using the most widely accepted form of crypto
How many businesses accept Liquid? Nearly zero. And lightning is nowhere near as accepted as on-chain Bitcoin.
Monero definitely provides much better privacy than Bitcoin. And Amir mentioned FCMP solving ring signatures problems so not sure how that is hypocritical.
Liquid doesn't hide sender or reciever, so Monero actually does offer substantially better technical benefits over it
The market disagrees. No darknet markets use Liquid or LN so it actually does serve a purpose.
I know you're joking, but agree with your point. Tor was a government project too.
I'm not saying I believe Bitcoin/internet/tor is necessarily co-opted because of that. My point is if someone wants to make these claims, ok, well lets be consistent and see what that line of logic leads us to conclude about Bitcoin.