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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @solomon1923 OP 27 Mar 2024 \ parent \ on: Bisq 2 has just been released. I am a Bisq contributor AMA about Bisq or Bisq 2 AMA
This is a problem on Bisq 1 also. See the guide to Mac installations here: https://bisq.wiki/Downloading_and_installing#OS-specific_install_notes
A mobile app would be great. It is technical difficult to get a peer to peer network app running on a mobile. It is something Bisq is striving towards.
In the meantime you can use a mobile Matrix client to access the Bisq room for people looking to buy and sell bitcoin: https://bisq.wiki/Getting_your_first_BTC
Bisq 2 has both moderators and mediators. If a user is scammed then the seller's profile would be banned from Bisq and the associated reputation they built would be lost. As there is a cost to develop a reputation for sellers it is in their interest to act honestly during the trade process.
Bisq 1 has arbitration because the funds are deposits into the multi-sig by the buyer and seller prior to the trade taking place. This is not the case in Bisq Easy.
Nothing contentious comes to mind. Banks are probably the biggest reason that trades might need assistance. For example:
- Bank rejects payment to the payee
- Bank rejects payment to the payer
- Bank holds payment from the payee for extra checks and either credits it or returns it
I use bank to refer to any financial services provider; eg Zelle, Strike etc.
Similar to Bisq 1, Bisq 2 provides mediation support should traders need assistance.
Thanks for writing the guide. Bisq does not really to any marketing so it very much relies on users to share their experience with others.
Robosats is great, I think the Federation Coordinator is to increase the decentralization of Robosats whilst also keeping offer books on different instances accessible. I think this is needed for Robosats as it is domain based (accessible from an onion address). I am not very familiar with the program though. Just what I have learnt from browsing their GitHub.
Bisq is software and as such all Bisq users are network peers, they broadcast and share the offer books with their network of peers.
Not sure if that answers your question. Please let me know if you would like me to expand on the answer.
How many of the developers of bisq 1 have moved over to bisq 2?
There are only a small number of devs working on Bisq. AFAIK most of the Bisq 2 devs joined to develop Bisq 2.
is this the same as the misq project?
Yes, I think the M in Misq was for multiple, as in multiple trade protocols. Misq was proposed as an idea This was changed to Bisq 2 relatively early on when development started. Here is the original Misq proposal.
Is bisq a business?
Bisq is a DAO. It is a business in the sense is an organization involved with the development and running of a bitcoin exchange.
The idea was for Bisq Easy to be a little more social. The experience from the Keybase and Matrix rooms was that of a friendly chat room where users could buy and sell bitcoin.
Bisq Easy seller's will hopefully create a positive experience for new bitcoin buyers. Likely there will be a little hand holding needed for a user that might have questions about bitcoin wallets, differences between on-chain and Lightning etc. The sellers will charge a markup but some of that is because they are expected to create a positive on-boarding experience.
Bisq being peer-to-peer means it will never be the easiest platform to use. But hopefully it can stand out in terms of the overall experience it provides; friendly community, self custody, private, no need for kyc, environment for uses to learn from others.
Thanks for the question.
I would not describe Bisq 2 as being a pivot as the original Bisq 1 trade protocol will continue to exist. I would describe Bisq Easy as being an additional trade protocol that might be suitable to some users.
The roadmap for Bisq 2 is to have multiple protocols that will suit various use cases.
The reasons for the change from Bisq 1 to 2 are:
- Bisq 1 software was becoming a little bloated. Hard for new devs to work on.
- Bisq 2 is designed from the ground up to support multiple trade protocols. It will make it possible for new contributors to focus their efforts on a trade protocol rather than worrying about understanding the entire code base.
- Bisq 2 will be easier to make accessible via mobile than Bisq 1.
The reasons for the addition of Bisq Easy are:
- Bisq 1 requires new users to have bitcoin to buy bitcoin. This is a barrier to no-coiners. Also getting some no KYC bitcoin to start the process was in itself a barrier and users where often directed to methods and platforms away from Bisq.
- Bisq has been operating a Get your First Bitcoin room on Matrix (and previously Keybase) for a while now. It has worked well but it was not promoted due to the risk of attracting scammers. Bisq Easy provides more security for buyers than can be achieved on a Keybase or Matrix room.
Bisq 1 is very safe due to how both the buyer and seller putting bitcoin into a security deposit. This essentially functions as an escrow. If the buyer or seller does not follow the trading rules then a penalty can be imposed and their peer can be compensated.
Bisq Easy is for smaller trades, and does not have the same security guarantees as Bisq 1. It sacrifices some security for more convivence (no bitcoin needed to trade). The security model for Bisq Easy is based on seller reputation. Here are some tips on how to trade safely on Bisq Easy.
It is due to the lower level of security a buyer gets by relying on the reputation of a seller. Larger trades are much more suited to Bisq 1 where the bitcoin multi-sig protocol provides a very high level of security.
Personally, the scenario described it is not something I have worried about. But state overreach comes in many forms and is something I have concerns with. It is one of the reasons I contribute to Bisq.
The Bisq Easy protocol users the bitcoin seller's reputation as the security mechanism. This is not as secure as the bitcoin multi-sig used for Bisq 1, which is why the 0.01 BTC limit for trades exists.
Seller's will invest in their reputation so they have an incentive not to scam users as if they do they will lose their reputation. Ideally buyers will end up trading with users that have high reputation to avoid being scammed.
If a buyer takes an offer from a user with no or low reputation the risk of them being scammed will be a lot higher.
No, you can go offline and your offer remains available. This is different to Bisq 1. Once the offer has been taken obviously both users need to be online at some point to complete the trade.
For Bisq to be accessible to as many users as possible it needs to be mobile friendly and enable trading to take place off layer 1.
Receiving bitcoin over Lightning is available now on Bisq Easy if the buyer and seller agree.
Lightning trade protocols are being worked towards:
- Bisq Easy Lightning (likely end of year - but not a native lightning solution)
- Lightning <-> BTC (Q1 of 2025)
- Lightning <-> Fiat (Q4 of 2025 - native lightning solution)
Will there ever be Bisq mobile app or web app in the future ? (Thinking about making it more accessible to the masses)
I am bullish on there being a mobile version of Bisq in the future. One of the issues is Bisq is a decentralized peer to peer network. This makes it a lot more difficult to have it running on a mobile. As technology improves I am sure this will make the translation to a mobile a lot easier.
Is this feeless trade & 0 security deposit only applies to Bisq Easy protocol or is this policy applies to all of the upcoming protocols ?
It is for the Bisq Easy protocol. The trading fees for the future protocols have not been decided yet but I imagine there will be a fee of some sorts.
How does the devs make money if there are no more trading fee ?
Bisq Easy will run at a loss for Bisq, but it gets revenue from the trading fees from Bisq 1.
Feeless trade effectively kills one of BSQ utility (trading fee reduction) was this already well-thought before ?
As feeless trades are just for Bisq Easy I do not think this will be much of a concern. Bisq did not make any revenue from Get Your First Bitcoin Matrix room to help on-board new users. Bisq Easy is essentially a development of this concept (small more convenient trades for new users).
Will Bisq ever consider to add supports for some other type of Bitcoin in the future ? (Fedimint, Cashu, Ark, Mercury )
Maybe. Personally I like the idea of a Bisq Fedimint that could form part of a trade protocol. Bisq likely has the reputation to achieve this but there are also regulatory issues to consider and Bisq's general dislike of providing any sort of custodianship.
One of the advantages of Bisq 2 is it allows developers to create new protocols that can be integrated into Bisq without taking on all the complicated codebase of Bisq 1. It is designed for trade protocols to be modular in that sense.
How resilience is Bisq in general against the potential gov attacks ?
The protocol is very resilient. Contributors and users would be the easier options for any attacks.
How does Bisq attracts liquidity ?
Good question. I think not being a mobile application and replying on on-chain transactions have been a big barrier to adoption. Also people like convenience. I think more adoption will come when more bitcoiners understand the benefits of stacking no KYC sats, and likely have more difficulty doing it via a centralized entity. Users that have experiences issues with banking and exchanges often turn to solutions such as Bisq. I expect more and more people to run into these issues in the future.
Yes, a native Lightning protocol for Bisq is very much needed, as is Bisq being accessible on mobile devices. Bisq 2 brings both of these a little closer. Glad you are a happy Bisq user.
Thanks for the question.
Here is a list of the main differences that come to mind with Bisq 1 and Bisq 2 (Bisq Easy).
| Feature | Bisq 1 | Bisq 2 |
|---|---|---|
| Security deposit requirements | Yes (min 15% of trade amount) | None |
| Trade size | up to 0.25 BTC for fiat trades | up to 0.01 BTC for fiat trades |
| Trade fees | 0.15% for maker and 1.15% for taker | None |
| Miner fees | maker pays one on-chain transaction, taker pays for three on-chain transactions | Seller will pay for one on-chain transaction |
| Risk of seller running off with fiat | Pretty much zero due to bitcoin multi-sig | None zero chance. Security is is based on seller reputation |
| Lightning trades | No | Yes, if buyer and seller agree |
| Multiple profiles | No | Yes |
Bisq Easy is more focused towards on boarding no-coiners or those wanting to get their first no KYC bitcoin.
Assuming a power user will be someone already familiar with bitcoin, no KYC, peer to peer trading, and be buying or selling over 0.01 BTC at a time then Bisq 1 will will be a much better fit for them.
Is it interoperable with bisq 1?
No, but you can import your Bisq 1 account age / signed status to give you some additional reputation if you anticipate being a seller.
Why should I switch if I'm still quite happy with bisq and have a very long and reputable profile.
No need to switch. Eventually the Bisq 1 multi-sig trade protocol will be incorporated into Bisq 2. At this point you would need to switch over, but this is a while away.
AMA link for anyone that is interested: #469058
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @solomon1923 17 Mar 2024 \ parent \ on: Introducing Bisq 2 | Video tutorial bitcoin
Don't worry. I came here to post a link to the video and saw that you had done so already. Will see if I can do an AMA to answer any questions people have about Bisq / Bisq 2.