Why DIDN'T Travel Bring the World Together? (Financial Times, Janan Ganesh) \ stacker news ~AskSN

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Why DIDN'T Travel Bring the World Together? (Financial Times, Janan Ganesh)www.ft.com/content/33e907bd-d6a9-43a2-9d96-c7709fea3a47

1027 sats \ 12 comments \ @denlillaapan 11 May AskSN

I've said it before (#943544), Mr. Ganesh is pretty interesting when he's not talking party politics.

"Foreign travel has been growing for decades. But so has nationalism. This 'shouldn’t' be true."

Exhibit A:

Brits and Italians are among the most prolific travellers in the world. Both countries have voted for propositions or parties that might be called nationalist over the past decade.

Exhibit B:

In 1995, eight per cent of Americans were planning a foreign trip in the next six months. In 2023, more than a fifth were. In which of those two periods was the US more internationalist?

Ganesh's explanation:

The kindest answer is that other forces drove nationalism, such as immigration, and that things would be even tenser now without the great increase in travel. Another is that most of the increase is accounted for by people who were liberal-minded to begin with. Those most in need of foreign exposure are still dodging it.

Another explanation is that the inverse is true: the more we see of others' shit, the less benign we think of them...? This, though, is the most compelling to me: Reject the premise: Travel never had that comingling kumbayah effect:

travel should never have had such heroic claims made for it. If cross-border mingling by itself thickened the cord of human sympathy, Europe would have a more tranquil past. ... It is possible to engage with another culture while rejecting it.

What do the Stackers think?

non-paywalled here: https://archive.md/eihs1

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163 sats \ 4 replies \ @optimism 11 May

I think that the average vacation doesn't instill any respect for local culture even if you're taking the "cultural" approach: vacation is selfish time. Just because you can sit in a foreign resort of the Marriott or Hyatt kind, that has great steak and cocktails - if you're unlucky you even meet a local taxi driver while you're on your way there from the airport - does not expose you to said foreign culture at all.

Your full service corporate apartment while you dine out every night doesn't either. It takes years to get a true feel for culture in places that are different from what you know, and then there's a great chance that you don't like it anyway. I personally didn't like 3 out of 5 foreign cultures I lived in for over 2 years.

Tolerance is a mindset. It may help you, if you're 13th century Spain so you can figure out navigation with the help of foreigners, 16th century Holland so you can improve capitalism and fractional ownership, 20th century America so you can define excellence to new heights. The point being that there is a common target.

I think that there is a significant portion of Bitcoiners that are actually tolerant towards different cultures. Because we have a common goal too.

So I'd argue: bitcoin, not vacay.

105 sats \ 2 replies \ @spiderman 12 May

Totally agree, travel is overrated as a metric or measure to build worldview or cultural tolerance.

I am an expatriate living in Hong Kong, and cannot stand it. Most locals are loud, uncouth, can barely speak any English at all, and I do not find anything worth exploring in terms of culture. But I like the low tax, my decent paycheque and relative economic freedom (to stack satoshis without capital gains taxes or KYC).

Travel is not what it is touted to be in most of western media.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @optimism 12 May

Do you like working in HK? I only was there (lived @ Jordan, worked @ Kowloon Bay) for less than 8 months in total, so I never really integrated into local society. However I did like the work culture, but that could've been 100% luck and credit to awesome colleagues.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @spiderman 23h

Work is stressful occasionally but I can take it. I mean, it pays the bill and I didn't expect it to be not stressful. Think it depends more on the company culture than HK. It's an American company, so quite a diverse workforce.

I don't really like living here as such, the language barrier is a part of it, and people in general seem quite shallow. Cannot really hold a conversation, and refuse much interaction without local language. But I an new here as well (6 ish months) so maybe it will change. Also, the food does not really agree with my bud.

Kowloon bay is an interesting area, have not explored though. Happy to know you moved out, hope you are happy wherever you are.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan OP 11 May

vacation is selfish time. Just because you can sit in a foreign resort of the Marriott or Hyatt kind, that has great steak and cocktails - if you're unlucky you even meet a local taxi driver while you're on your way there from the airport - does not expose you to said foreign culture at all.

This, exactly.

Also love your bitcoin, not vacay.

103 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 11 May

I totally agree with your take. I appreciate America so much more after having traveled abroad.

Certainly arguments of the form This or that shithole country does things this way fall completely flat. To be fair, though, I never found arguments like that very compelling.

70 sats \ 1 reply \ @denlillaapan OP 11 May

I appreciate America so much more after having traveled abroad.

That's funny because I feel the exact opposite when I leave America. (but who cares about us stupid Europeans and our Stupid European Opinions?? #968945)

14 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 11 May

To be fair, Europe (although I'm sure I would feel the same) is not where I'm talking about.

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 11 May

I roll my eyes whenever people talk about their travel vacations like it's some noble thing to do.

Dude, it's just your vacation time, I'm glad you enjoy it, but don't act like you're doing the world some favor or becoming more righteous in the process.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @88b0c423eb 11 May

The more one travels and see other culture the more he or she appreciates his own culture and town/province.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 11 May

Nationalism takes hold when people feel insecure about their position relative to other nations. A strong. dominant culture does not feel threatened by others, until it is well down the road of decline. Western civilisation is now well down that road...look at USA today.

92 sats \ 0 replies \ @Jerrian_thedeep 11 May

This column raises a sharp and timely question: Has the increase in international travel really led to greater internationalism? It challenges the long held belief that travel broadens the mind and fosters cross cultural understanding. Let's break down some perspectives the "Stackers" (i.e., thoughtful, analytical readers) might offer:

Travel ≠ Transformation Many may agree with Ganesh’s final point: travel doesn’t automatically lead to empathy or open mindedness. A two week trip to Tuscany doesn’t necessarily shake someone's worldview. Superficial tourism can reinforce stereotypes more than it dissolves them. Travel as consumption is different from travel as cultural exchange.
Echo Chambers Abroad Stackers might also point out that global travel today is more curated than ever. Tourists often remain within familiar cultural bubbles luxury resorts, English speaking tours, Instagrammable spots limiting meaningful engagement with other cultures. Travel can even become a kind of national performance abroad, not a challenge to it.
The Filter Effect Ganesh's suggestion that liberal minded people are driving the travel boom resonates. Internationalism among cosmopolitan elites is rising, but that doesn’t reach or sway large nationalist voter blocs at home. The most insular may remain so both physically and ideologically.
Nationalism ≠ Isolationism Many Stackers might emphasize that modern nationalism doesn’t always mean disengagement from the world it can coexist with travel and global commerce. A nationalist might enjoy tapas in Madrid while still voting for hard borders at home. Travel and ideology aren’t necessarily in tension.
Historical Perspective The reference to Europe is apt centuries of intermingling didn’t stop war or xenophobia. Empires, trade, and colonization involved massive cross border movement with no utopian result. The “kumbayah” ideal of travel may be a postwar liberal invention.

So, in true FT reader fashion, many Stackers would likely reject the romanticism of travel and argue that structural, economic, and political forces do far more to shape attitudes than the number of passport stamps someone has.