NOSTR really sucks for me :( \ stacker news ~nostr

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784 sats \ 41 comments \ @raw_avocado 11h nostr

For the last 2 weeks I have been posting daily on X, NOSTR and here. I always posts stuff that I think are interesting and are worth to take time to read, and give you some kinda of insight into bitcoin. I personally love it when my understanding of bitcoin gets turned upside down. :)

I also spend a LOT of time on a single post, researching it, ALWAYS adding references and making the pictures look good.

Im sure not everyone will agree, but I think I post good content. Well seems that the market on twitter agrees with me to some degree as they are spending time interacting with this content.

On the other hand on NOSTR crickets.

This is what 99% of people's experience is, because there is no discovery algorithm. I am making this post to point out how big of a problem this is, and why someone should make it priority #1.

Also I notice how the people who are famous on NOSTR make it sound like it is this amazing place and the community is so great and bla bla, and I am sure that is true but just for them.

The reality is there are something like 100 people that get all the attention because:

they offer money to people who work on nostr projects(nothing wrong all fair game, just pointing the causation)
work on a nostr project
friends of 1) or 2)

Now it is very normal for anything to concentrate on ANY type of network, and even more, these people deserve all the attention, because they actually earned and they are visibly and verifiably doing great work.

But this is NOT how you build a social media(i know nostr is not a social media), and more importantly NOT how you compete with X. The way this is gonna' win is if people have an incentive to move there and they are REWARDED when they post content.

I am sorry but I do not want to say GM, I do not want to talk to other people so I get noticed, and I do not wan to kiss anyone's ass in the hope that I get reposted!

I want to write good content and I want it to be shown to some people and they can decide if it is worth their time.

Currently the way it works, is 100x worst than on any other social media, instead of the platform working for me I have to fight against it.

I also understand this is a open-source project and it is hard to coordinate, but I don't understand how I am the only one that is bothered by this. There is no way I am the only person facing this problem. Or maybe other faced it and stopped using NOSTR.

Anyway I just wanted to point out a problem that there is a BIG problem and that it seems everyone is ignoring it.

P.S. by the time I finished writing this post, metrics went up by 10% on X.

EDIT: This is not a 1-off. Just posted this event as is most recent. I did this also last year with same results. Currently I have 45 days of data that have the same result, fwiw.

Sources:

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313 sats \ 6 replies \ @Undisciplined 8h

I basically agree with you. Stacker News is vastly better for substantive posts.

Nostr is better as a news scroll.

77 sats \ 3 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 6h

But it's not mutually exclusive, and things like Primal, clearly are trying to be an X competitor.

188 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 6h

Sure, but they aren't advertising improved reach as a feature.

It's still a small community, so you can't reasonably expect an audience for exactly the content you feel like creating.

For the time being, I see it as 1) a new cool thing, 2) a news feed, 3) a place to stay in touch with other bitcoiners.

Stacker News is great for discussing longer form content, so I don't really care that nostr isn't good at that yet.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @raw_avocado OP 6h

It's like using the internet without google and having all these obtuse work arounds!

129 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 5h

Maybe, but I do use the internet without Google and have lots of obtuse workarounds.

I've basically never used or been tempted to use Twitter/X, so the loss is lost on me.

212 sats \ 1 reply \ @NovaRift 7h

Nostr is better as a news scroll.

Also for memes!

105 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 7h

Agree, although I don't attach high importance to that.

126 sats \ 7 replies \ @siggy47 7h

All valid criticisms. I particularly can't take the GM drivel from people I (used to?) respect.

36 sats \ 3 replies \ @jasonb 3h

https://www.nostrminusnostr.com/gm

I'm so sorry, but I had to do this.

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 3h

I want to walk back my comments. I like nostr and use it daily, despite its issues. I root for nostr. I have to admit the GM thing bugs me, though. It was a good thing that has been beaten to death.

36 sats \ 1 reply \ @jasonb 3h

Just so there’s no confusion, I think the gm thing is so silly and built that to highlight how silly it is. :P

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 48m

I've always though people do it so they can be more visible with little cost.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @purpurato 1h

lol sorry agree with the GM it's retarded and ruins the experience in nostr

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 6h

Its not even a criticism, I was just describing how the interactions work. Nothing wrong with people GMing each other.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 6h

GM as in, good morning? Something else?

131 sats \ 3 replies \ @anon 8h

Engagement farmer expects attention and doesn't get any

Maybe, your content (and attitude) sucks?

If you get more likes on twitter, just post there. Nostr doesn't need complainers, it needs builders.

125 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 6h

get rid of the opensats oligarchy

good devs dont want to have to appeal to the vatican to be an equal

it makes the protocol political and empowers retards because opensats is run by bitcoin politicians with to many conflicts

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 4h

This sounds like a good topic for a longer post. Most people don't know anything about this.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 7h

Engagement farmer that posts code? Because that is clearly the best way to farm engagement?

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @398ja 7h

Your last post went viral. It appeared on my feed this morning and I even zapped it! Also, you're on the top 15 on nostr.band

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 6h

Well thanks. But the post went viral for the wrong reasons. Only because people got mad at my meta NOSTR post then they checked the actual post, which proves my point even more I think.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 9h

I don't get much engagement on nostr also. I do when I say something bad about Monero but that's not what I want to use it for.

I still think it's pretty early for nostr and will continue to use it and hope that the daily user base grows organically.

171 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 5h

Follow based social media is tough, but once it gets going the network can be quite dense. It’s just harder to get going.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 5h

I dont think so, I mean even when this critical mass happenes, you need a machine to feed you the data you need.

Why does nobody want to say yes, we a discovery algorithm is needed?

I was hoping this would start a conversation about why this is not here yet, like some technical reasons, or like what are the bottle necks.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 4h

Coolest part about nostr is.. if you think that algorithmic feeds and spoon-fed content is a really important feature. You can just build it and if people don't find it useful, they won't use it. I don't personally find it useful at all.

Also, I couldn't help but notice that you don't have a nip-05, you're posting kind 1 notes for something that should be posted as kind 30023 (articles) and you have no relays listed which makes it even harder to find your notes organically.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 45m

i don't want to build stuff like that I do other things, plus this is sucha stupid attitude, just because I am not going to build it it does not mean my insight should not be shared. Really dont see how this makes any sense at all.
idk what that means. Is it really to much to ask for something that works. Like I post the thing and I'm done. I mean i spend 1 week to write some posts, i really dont want to worry about if the post will work.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @Luxas 5h

I’m literally a nobody pleb, but I was able to organically get a decent following by being a builder and creating things. But, I also don’t give in to my ego and care about the dopamine from likes/zaps. If something doesn’t get reach I move on and keep sharing. My timeline and projects are really just for me. But the right people will find me at the right time and then see a huge timeline to enjoy. Focus on doing what and sharing what you like and makes you happy, not what might to others. Hope you stick around on Nostr 🤙

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 5h

I will definitely stick around, I was prolly in the 1st 500 people who used it with Damus.

Well the things I make are meant to be shared, like if you make a painting you want others to see it. I baffles me that is seen as something wrong.

But still my question is unanswered. Why is everyone so against admiting a discovery algorithm is needed, and starting to talk about how that can work.

26 sats \ 4 replies \ @fiatbad 5h

What Nostr offers the world is FAR bigger than an X clone. Nostr is a no-brainer for decentralized, open-source platforms.

On the latests WBD episode, Mark Moss was talking about how he believes the world is just beginning to lean into decentralized, open-source and away from the centralized jungle we've been used to. If he's right, Nostr is what will be used as the authentication-layer and database layer for most of these open-source apps. Only AFTER people are using their Nostr keys to login to pay their tax bill will people start seeing how easy it is to use the same login for their social media.

At the first Nostrica event, I remember Jack Dorsey expressing regret for not creating Twitter "the right way" the first time. With decentralization, interoperability, and censorship-resistance in mind. But the capital markets were working against him. He had to go the centralized route if he wanted the funding.

Now, we need to teach the world to shift to a completely new way of doing the internet. A single login key for EVERYTHING on the internet. And data, such as friends/followers lists, which are always there regardless of which platform you're on at the moment. A deeper layer to social media that has been missing until now.

Nostr sucks, just like paying for something with on-chain Bitcoin kinda sucks. But we don't do it because it's easier. We do it cuz it's right. (or we don't do it at all cuz deep down we're just lazy NGU maximalists who can't be bothered learning new shit)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @LibertasBR 3h

A single login key for EVERYTHING on the internet.

This passage reminded me a lot of WEB 3.0, I don't agree. I think the point of decentralization is to prevent censorship by keeping your data safe from any arbitrary actions and still allowing you to create as many identities as you want without them referring to anyone in particular.

Nostr sucks, just like paying for something with on-chain Bitcoin kinda sucks. But we don't do it because it's easier. We do it cuz it's right.

I completely agree with that. And I add that I use it to avoid being held hostage by algocracy.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 5h

Dude, please spare me I know all of this.

Just answer me this. Do you think an Discovery Algorithm would make this 10x better? What ever part or layer of nostr one may be using.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @fiatbad 4h

It's such a nuanced topic.

There are major pros and cons with discovery algorithms.

Ultimately, having them set by some central authority goes against the ethos of Nostr/Bitcoin. But not having them at all will probly mean Nostr never appeals to a wider audience and will continue suffering from the points you make. It's a lose/lose situation, and it's making me sad.

Last I heard, there were some discovery algorithm settings being developed as a NIP to get into the protocol. I am skeptical that they will be used widely. The individuals have to set their preferences which most are too lazy to bother with.

We don't want to be controlled, but we don't want to take control. We don't want a centralized company showing us what it wants us to see and censoring based on its preferences or government mandate. But without discovery algorithms, how does information propagate.... how do people discover new things? How do we challenge ourselves?

Personally, I've been using the "global" view on Nostr more often lately. That way I see everything. But, this is also annoying and inefficient, for obvious reasons.

I dunno... I'm interested in digging deeper into the nuances of this topic, but it's also not the top of my interest list. I see it as another trade-off discussion. In order to have censorship resistance we lose some other key things.

BTW, following you on Nostr now. So you got at least one new follower out of this.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @raw_avocado OP 41m

how does information propagate.... how do people discover new things? How do we challenge ourselves? EXACTLY MY POINT!

Great. Maybe we can talk about it there :D

105 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 4h

The loudest Nostr shills don't know its pre-history, and as a result most of what has been built with it is unworkable. The social feed use-case is propped up only by a spooky NGO/VC cabal.

Think of it as an signed and encrypted dns-free successor to email, not a social feed driven by engagement algorithms.

Used correctly, it's spam resistant and time delayed- not a real-time feed that finds viewers/content for you where engagement is the currency of a network state.

For creators to be successful this requires more of a Substack/OF mental model than a Xitter one.

The insights from Lightning.Video support this, eschewing the reliance on algorithms and advertisers means different kinds of content than what succeeds on YouTube are what do well. We already have had creators make more with a few hundred views on LV than they made with 10s of thousands on YT.

This will have a positive effect on the internet at large, content will be more substantive and less optimized for virality, ads, and algos. But coding these platforms is the easy part, user patterns will take years or decades to adapt at the same time AI Chat Bots compete for user minutes.

Paradoxically, AI on Social Feeds may accelerate this, as Social Feeds increasingly get overwhelmed with AI slop. So your content strategy needs to consider whether or not you want to compete with AI for priority in the algo, or zig while others zag.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @BlokchainB 5h

I feel ya pain. I post to the nostr either for the hell of it. It’s fun to me. A place where I can sound off random thoughts.

But yeah it does have a discovery problem. Damus has zero discovery and primal tries to but it’s often buggy and highlights the same 10-20 bitcoin influencers

47 sats \ 1 reply \ @raw_avocado OP 5h

I mean it's not that big of a pain, it's not like I am depending on this.

It's like no one actually wants to get more information relevant to them in their feed.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 4h

I think they do it’s just hard to find we are so used to having content pushed to our face not knowing how or why it’s on my feed.

But on SN attention is promoted or ignored via sats why I am so addicted to this site!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @byzantine 3h

rss feeds to categories on stacker news is the best algorithm

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @byzantine 3h

the stacker.news cross post to nostr feature results in my posts freezing when using the nos2x extension

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @LibertasBR 4h

I had been using all three, then I stopped using X. The algorithm was suffocating me with junk that seemed relevant. Nostr shined because it didn't have an algorithm monitoring me and recommending things that it thinks I want to see from people who know how it works to get engagement. The problem with Nostr for me is the accounts, it seems like a back alley of strange people and fake accounts, but the real interactions I had there were more useful than any on X. In my opinion, journalist and news accounts can be more attractive to me and to many people. And that's where SN shines and becomes my main source of good content, filtered by a simple coin system, there won't be spam (not much) and irrelevant content isn't rewarded.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nitter 11h bot

https://xcancel.com/raw_avocado/status/1916909232030450163