How to Retire in Your 50s (WSJ, Anne Tergesen and Veronica Dagher) \ stacker news ~econ

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How to Retire in Your 50s (WSJ, Anne Tergesen and Veronica Dagher)www.wsj.com/personal-finance/retirement/retirement-under-55-in-america-64bd0dc8

1181 sats \ 15 comments \ @denlillaapan 30 Mar econ

Here's a nice story, roughly a follow-up to yesterday's wealth observation (#929023): a WSJ weekend read on five normal yet remarkably wealthy men who retired early.

Somehow the reporters at WSJ managed to convince them to show exact figures and financial situations. All of them report no/low debt, and astonishing amounts of funds in a) real estate, b) business investments, c) various retirement funding programs, ranging from IRAs and 401(k)s to annuities. (No bitcoin mention... total shock!)

None of these guys are what we would call "poor," the lowest spender (~65k a year), having a few million in the bank.

Noticiably too, and to some extent illustrating the hubris of the FIRE movement (financial independence, retire early), they were all successful managers or high-ranking in this or that profession... you can't be an ordinary schmuck and amass enough funds to comfortably retire in your mid-50s. That math just won't work out.

Anyway, what I liked the most were the relatable life stories, the happy pictures, and the way that these people have structured their financial arrangements to allow for the lives they want to live. Very inspiring.

The title is stupid, though. This is emphatically not what retiring is like for the vast, vast majority of people; these are extreme, top-1% type stories. It's extraordinary financial circumstances that let a person retire 10-15 years "early."

non-paywalled: https://archive.md/jzXRF

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67 sats \ 6 replies \ @endothermicdev 31 Mar

you can't be an ordinary schmuck and amass enough funds to comfortably retire in your mid-50s. That math just won't work out.

As a long time Mr. Money Mustache reader and having ordinary schmuck friends who have done this well before age 50, what's wrong with the math?

42 sats \ 2 replies \ @Signal312 31 Mar

I used to hang out on the Mr Money Mustache forum - a FIRE forum (Financial Independence Retire Early).

I enjoyed the site, till they went woke. As a matter of fact, I was kicked out of the forum - no warning, nothing - when I suggested that people do some research, before they have their kids take the Covid jab.

There are honestly some really interesting articles on the site - I think the best stuff was mostly his blog posts. And believe me, they really have their numbers DOWN. The math really does work (there's plenty of articles on it).

I wonder if the "investing in index funds" strategy will work that well in the future. Also Mr Money Mustache is VERY anti bitcoin.

67 sats \ 1 reply \ @endothermicdev 31 Mar

Lol, yeah, he got really anti-bitcoin! I tried to argue it's merits a time or two. I noticed there were a few other forum members who were also bitcoiners, but it turns out smart people don't necessarily have to be open-minded. Actually, I think this experience perfectly encapsulates Jesse Myers' Why the Yuppie Elite Dismiss Bitcoin. I didn't take offense, some people just aren't ready to be open minded or put in the time. Their loss!

Anyway, I think the overall concept still has merit, and you can easily swap out index ETFs for self-custodied bitcoin to achieve the same results faster. Still, it mostly comes down to discipline, shunning a couple societal norms, and getting real analytical with your expenses. I think surrounding yourself with others attempting those things is useful if you want to take it seriously. Even if it's just by hanging out in the forums on occasion.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 31 Mar

That yuppie elite article was spot on.

You know one thing that became more and more apparent when I was hanging out on the site was that ... the lack of meaning, the lack of a feeling of purpose, after FIRE, was really apparent once you dug into the forum a bit more.

Many, many (most?) people that actually retired - even from jobs they hated - seemed to be unhappy, adrift after they stopped working. And didn't seem to find their way.

Or maybe it's just the complainers, the ones for whom it didn't work out all that well, who made these types of posts, like, "I'm FIRE, now what? I'm bored and depressed".

Another thing that the FIRE movement really encapsulated for me was...if a group wasn't EXPLICITLY anti-woke, they would become woke. FIRE at the beginning was a pretty normal group, frequently with an alternative, libertarian edge. Towards the end of when I stopped reading much on it, they got really woke, and allergic to other points of view.

Weird how that happened. I read an article like that somewhere (basically, if a group, no matter what type, was not explicitly anti-work, they became woke). I think I observed that in a number of places.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @denlillaapan OP 31 Mar

It's a simple formula... You need income up or expenses down, by a loooot. That's why it only works for high-income earners like in the WSJ piece

40 sats \ 1 reply \ @endothermicdev 31 Mar

I think most people - in the US at least - spend a lot more than they need to. Whether it's ridiculous homes, living in a HCOL area, $80k trucks for a basic commute, holidays or constant dining out. Sure, those who take FIRE seriously usually approach a 50% savings rate, but I've seen that done even on meager salaries. Mostly it's engineers, nurses, etc. who have good paying professional careers, but those jobs and people aren't incredibly rare.

I only ever achieved a ~25% savings rate, but at 40, I'm only still working because I get to contribute to the lightning network and I would be doing that anyway. I would probably have another decade left if it weren't for bitcoin, but one could argue that makes this approach even more accessible.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan OP 31 Mar

precisely... it's kind of aggressive. And most people don't live like that.

That they could is a different hypothetical, really. (We could all survive on beans and rice, but we don't...)

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 31 Mar

One thing I'd be curious about is how much did they inherit from their parents. It wasn't really mentioned in the article (I don't think), but it's one of the things that really helps some people get a leg up that others don't have.

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB 30 Mar

My plan is simple

secure a home
secure food
make enough to cover one and two.

If bitcoin doesn’t fail or blow up then I am on track on achieving my simple retirement goals.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan OP 30 Mar

I guess that if is iffy! (#927854)

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @HardMoney 30 Mar

Definitely helps when you were a civil servant and have a pension that pays 8k+ after tax per month lol

23 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 30 Mar

With careful planning, anything is achievable. I just think some people dont realize how much cummulative interests adds up over time. The key is to start saving early and investing your time/money wisely.

19 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bitcoiner1 31 Mar

How does a Bitcoiner calculate his FIRE number?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan OP 31 Mar

Excellent question. I have no idea

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 31 Mar

I don't worry about retirement, because I've already commited to working until I die lol