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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @028559d218 OP 15 Mar \ parent \ on: Rachel Maddow missing the forrest for the trees bitcoin
"Without those core properties, which we already established does not exist for white markets transactions, Bitcoins advantages over fiat payment apps don't exist. It makes little sense to use over fiat on white markets. It's slower, volatile, more expensive (in fees/taxes), faces regulatory uncertainty, and far less merchants accept it."
  • Completely missing the forest for the trees in my opinion. The greatest demand for Bitcoin TODAY and for most people is protection against government debt and inflation, the big picture problem effecting every country and every society all over the world right now. It is not about 'payments' for most... because for that you could just use paypal or venmo and the vast majority don't use 'black markets'.
  • Bitcoin allows the individual (or organization) to save in energy-conservative capital that is secure and highly survivable. It is not just about payments... as if 'white market' money doesn't matter. If any cryptocurrency is forever limited to 'dark markets' (mostly buying drugs) and not 'white markets' or 'big monetary markets' then it will fail.
  • I have heard this before, that Bitcoin has 'no purpose' for white markets and I fundamentally disagree with that. It CAN 'run home' to dark/grey markets but the idea it is only 'for payments' on dark markets excludes all the monetary principles it excels at... in comparison to fiat or bonds or government debt which is everywhere and really important.
This is the chart XMR/BTC since 2023
This is the chart since 2020
As a monetary/savings/value network Bitcoin is 'outperforming'. Yes it's true spending your savings/cryptocurrency/Bitcoin is important... but for people trying to save there is an obvious, clear winner so far. 9 times out of 10 people choose the better store-of-value first then they'll figure out way to spend as it benefits their network (which I believe is Lightning eventually).
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @028559d218 OP 15 Mar
This is the trading volume of BTC according to coingecko (so take it with a grain of salt)
~14 billion
This is XMR
~34 million
In other words, 400x that of Bitcoin than Monero. Yesterday it was over 600x.
Why is this important? Because of liquidity. See this conversation here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1ish8zh/the_20mn_transaction/
There is a 'ransom-request' involving 20 million of Monero (according to the post) and one of the comments -
  • "Yes, over a few weeks, I would say, it's doable. In a short period, not so much. But in BTC you can get it in the next minute at some OTC desk."
Here is another thread on North Korean hackers not using Monero after the Bybit hack to obscure funds: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1j5vohl/real_world_use_cases_for_monero/
What do the comments say on an r/xmr subreddit? Lack of liquidity. Lack of markets. Lack of market size... lack of buyers and sellers. Lack of availability. One comment mentions the desire to 'buy' 500k USD of Monero and the response?
'Would be hard to do all at once, especially in one place'.
There are Bitcoin exchanges just in the US that handle that in an afternoon... and do it over and over again because of the large liquidity. If Monero can't even handle a '500k buy' (like these comments on Reddit suggest) then what is the point???
I would be curious in hearing from other 'Monero' people... on all these points.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 16 Mar
None of this is relevant to Bitcoins value proposition.
"Here is another thread on North Korean hackers not using Monero after the Bybit hack to obscure funds"
  • Makes perfect sense. Why would a nation state like NK care about privacy over liquidity? They can do what they want with impunity. Are they scared they are going to arrest themselves?
  • Again, price charts and liquidity have nothing to do with permissionless transactions.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 16 Mar
"The greatest demand for Bitcoin TODAY and for most people is protection against government debt and inflation, the big picture problem"
  • Vast majority of people are holding their Bitcoin on centralized exchanges so aren't protected against this. The CEX or government can confiscate and fractionally reserve their Bitcoin. Too many examples to even list of rugs happening intentionally and unintentionally.
  • If government says "You owe us periodic taxes/unrealized gains" that will offset Bitcoins value preservation or they executive order 6102 2.0 your Bitcoin what are your choices? The only way to escape inflation or confiscation is by not complying AKA black markets. Bitcoins ability to do what you are saying is completely dependent on non-compliance AKA black market activity. There is no way around it.
"It is not about 'payments' for most... because for that you could just use paypal or venmo and the vast majority don't use 'black markets'."
  • 100% agree for white markets and those that have access to fiat payment apps.
"If any cryptocurrency is forever limited to 'dark markets' (mostly buying drugs) and not 'white markets' or 'big monetary markets' then it will fail."
  • On the contrary, black markets are the only place you can enforce Bitcoins value propositions. It's not about being able to "buy drugs". It means being able to do something that is not allowed/a central authority restricts). Without it Bitcoin is worthless for the reasons I described above. It's not a prescription or value judgement it's just a description of facts about the white market.
"but for people trying to save there is an obvious, clear winner so far. 9 times out of 10 people choose the better store-of-value first then they'll figure out way to spend as it benefits their network (which I believe is Lightning eventually)."
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