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100 sats \ 9 replies \ @Hermit OP 8 Nov 2022 \ on: Continuing the controversy about Muun bitcoin
@ca @pillar
What is the custodial option for Maria? She is unbanked as the 70% of the population in El Salvador. What self custody?
María wants to sell some Papusas and make $10 per day so she can spend $5 in the ingredients to sell more the next day and use the other $5 dollars to pay bills and food for the children.
Knowledge on self custody? She didn't have the luck on having a first world education to understand economics, routing and the differences between wallets.
María represents the 70% of the population. More than 5 billion people. What wallet would you recommend these people to live day a day.
She's gonna pay $5 for tx fees if she keeps using muun. I'd suggest Phoenix just to get her started, though she will likely use Chivo or Strike and take out dollars at the ATMs instead.
I will suggest a slightly better option than what I know she's already been suggested to use.
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how do you suggest to use phoenix in this case?
Pay to her 10000 sats and let her pay 3k sats for each transaction?
or you would create for her a big channel on her first transaction and ask her to pay you back?
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No, no. It’s not 3k sats per transaction.
The first incoming tx has to be more than 10k and the fee for the new channel is 3k. That’s just to establish the channel.
After that, she pays only 1-5 sats for transactions until she needs a new channel. Then she pays the 3k fee for the channel.
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No , no, it is 3k for transaction if she keep selling pupusas, remember we are using Maria's example here.
With phoenix If I send you 10$ (~55k sats todays exchange rate) it will create a channel for you for ~52k with a little inbound capacity but not enough to receive another 10$.
So if I send you 10$ 10 times, it will create 10 channels, charging you 3k sats each time (It charges the receiver).
This is not good for Maria :(
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Second one seems like a pretty good suggestion.
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I don’t know what to feel if that’s the solution for Bitcoin scalability
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Yeah I don't think its perfect, I just think its the best solution we have right now. I think the best solution we're gonna end up with, is a grassroots solution believe it or not. I think we need wallet software that lets you do what phoenix does, but lets you control the fees and the default node it connects to and lets you package it with your company logo on it. We get more local community solutions that way and the lightning network truly becomes a network of networks like its supposed to be.
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I think what kills Phoenix for the on-boarding is the 3000k sats minimum , the 1% is not that bad if they allow people to receive any amount, 0.5$ to open a channel without inbound liquidity is to much for Maria
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Which is why I said that I believe in it so much that I'd pay the fee myself
Its also why I went into the technical minutia of how Phoenix should become a "Make your own company wallet" creation platform. Where every business that uses the system that Phoenix does will have its own fee rates and if that entity happens to be a community organizer trying to do a grassroots local economy like a Bitcoin beach, you and I know that fee rate would be 0
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