The six pitfalls of getting on zero. \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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2504 sats \ 40 comments \ @BlokchainB 25 Feb bitcoin_beginners

Last spring I made the decision to get on zero. Which means hold no dollars in my checking account and every dollar I hold would go into bitcoin. When I needed dollars to pay a bill then I would sell the bitcoin get the dollars I needed and pay whatever bill.

If you are considering do this here are some pain points to consider.

Miscalculating the number of dollars you need in a month. This caused me to miss a few auto payments thus making me pay late fees.
The thought of selling bitcoin for dollars is painful. It is a mental hurdle that is hard to defeat. I often found myself using credit cards or waiting to the next payday before selling then bitcoin I needed to pay what ever bill.
When you withdraw the bitcoin then send it back to the exchange and then sell for dollars can really screw up your tax basis. I spent maybe 3 hours manually inputting my transactions into my tax report.
Using gift and Visa cards sucked. Having to keep track of unused balances is a real pain in the ass. One time I tried to get a gift card after eating at California Pizza Kitchen and the app had a bug and it didn’t deliver my gift card. So I had to use credit anyways and got a gift card after the fact which sucked.
Fighting the urge to pay off credit cards balances before they ballon out of control. Ideally you would only sell bitcoin once a month to cover all of your fiat bills but seeing that credit card balance climb can cause anxiety especially if you hate debt.
The anxiety you feel when the price drops a bit and your cash balance goes down $50-$200 and you think damn I could’ve used that extra bit to pay for groceries.

If you decide to do this consider leaving the sats you plan to sell for dollars on the exchange. Soon as you withdraw and add back you are in for a major tax headache. Only withdraw what you never plan to spend in the short run.

I will still try to live on zero but keep more of a cash cushion for peace of mind.

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130 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheMorningStar 25 Feb

Can we ever come out of the fiat trap if we don't make things easier. I've bitcoin but I simply can't think of other way of using it, if needed, than to sell it for fiat.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB OP 23h

Yeah the tax and merchant adoption make it painful to get on zero

94 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 25 Feb

Seems that you ignored all my advice about how to live on bitcoin. #881363

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB OP 23h

slowly start onboarding merchants around you, once you are comfortable with teaching others, small steps and climb the slowly the ladder on more complicated solutions

This is nearly impossible to do an a large metropolitan American city

But everything else on your list I pretty much do!

55 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 23h

In the beginning you do not need all the merchants onboarded. Is enough a single one (the smart one) that is willing to offer you anything you need for your sats. The small "mom&pop" shops are perfect for this. Will be like your "personal amazon shop".

I have a shop owner doing that for me for years now... he even offered to pay all my fiat bills in my name. Anything I want I order through his shop (is a small grocery store).

But the important part is not how to spend, nowadays we have so many places where to spend easily. The important part is to have a constant flow of sats into your wallets and do not depend anymore of fiat banks.

148 sats \ 3 replies \ @LibertasBR 22h

Don't give up, people like you give me inspiration to maintain and follow this plan. Real cases like this are great to present to people that work. Maybe these problems you are having are adaptation issues and you will soon get used to it.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @BlokchainB OP 20h

I’m all in on this bitcoin revolution! I can’t stand banks but at the same time I like food, energy, internet, and having a home. Until I find a supplier of these goods and services in bitcoin I will always need fiat.

Plus influencers like American Hodl says fiat isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Maybe not for a 100 years or so.

Bitcoin is traded 24/7 as the price goes up it’s a reminder of how people are actively getting priced out from just buying it. Governments make it hard to earn it and spend it. So yes getting on zero is true pain in the ass but it must be done to get the most sats you possibly can.

125 sats \ 1 reply \ @LibertasBR 18h

The graphs show that the dollar has been devaluing since the end of the gold standard and because it is centralized we know that they can always print more. The dollar has a special issue in relation to any other fiat currency, the famous milkshake dollar among others. My currency suffers twice as much and that's why BTC is the solution.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB OP 15h

Long term correct but for bills that are due tomorrow the dollar is more stable than bitcoin until suppliers accept sats for their goods and services

149 sats \ 2 replies \ @Satosora 23h

So, l am just curious. How much did you end up in fees over the course of the year? Was it still worth it in the end, or would you say its better to keep a larger cash reserve?

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB OP 20h

Well it’s hard to say. I had $100 in late fees alone for one of my bills. Plus the spread that you pay on the exchanges buying going back and forth between bitcoin and fiat and the fees paid when withdrawing cash at the ATM are really high.

But overall since bitcoin has a huge run up in the fall of 2024 the appreciation is a wash.

But it’s human nature to feel bummed out when you feel like you are paying more for something you shouldn’t have to or would have avoided all together if you just held more cash.

71 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 19h

I think it is good more people are trying this. Its just a matter of time before no one is holding the worthless dollar.

117 sats \ 7 replies \ @denlillaapan 25 Feb

I don't exactly live on zero, but not far from it. And I recognise all of these, jeez.

Pretty horrible. Not sure why we do this to ourselves

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 25 Feb

it's horrible because you people still live in a fiat mindset. Everything you do you relate to fiat price.

169 sats \ 3 replies \ @denlillaapan 23h

no, SIIIIIR.

We live in a real (#737272) economy, where we use monetary rails to earn our income and acquire goods and services.

Sometimes those rails are dollars/fiat; sometimes those rails are BTC

5 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 23h

again... fiat mindset. I've said many times: US people will be the last ones in the whole world really adopting Bitcoin. Why? Because they are so focused on their shitty dollar as to be the only one used. All other places will adopt much easier BTC because they can ditch dollar so easily. Is just a matter of time and changing mentality. Meanwhile muricans are still debating what is bitcoin for them (money or asset), the rest of the world will outperform them in bitcoin adoption.

I also said many times: bitcoin adoption start from the bottom, not from the top (saylors and blackrocks)...

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @denlillaapan 22h

not what I'm saying.

Go read some of my MONEY CLASSES (#793539, #780358, #809392)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 22h

I am not subscribed to "econ" territory. Is all full of fiat crap that doesn't interest me. When I see people trying to adapt Bitcoin to existing economic system I am just laughing. You can't adapt Bitcoin... you must change the existing systems to how bitcoin works. But that require a deep understanding of how Bitcoin works and its unique economy.

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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB OP 23h

Because our bills are denominated in fiat

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 23h

so? bills have nothing to do with what is in your head.

148 sats \ 4 replies \ @johngribbin 25 Feb

Very interesting—cheers for these insights! Perhaps Clams could make your life easier?

You can connect all your wallets to calculate your cost basis per transaction and across all your holdings. We’ve just added a new export widget that includes a capital gains report, which might be useful for you.

More details are available in our FAQ.

We can’t help with managing fiat debts, but that’s definitely an interesting problem to solve.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @BlokchainB OP 23h

I been looking at clams but I have no idea how to get started with it

331 sats \ 2 replies \ @johngribbin 22h

We have a good number of short clips on our YouTube channel demonstrating how to connect various wallet types, including on-chain and multisig setups.

Each release also gets a dedicated post on our blog, where we break down all the new and updated features. You can also find direct links to specific sections of blog posts in the features section on the blog homepage.

Feel free to reach out if you have any questions!

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB OP 20h

Thanks. I’ll give a real shot this year. I tried @ek YNAB it was an okay platform but trying to live on a bitcoin standard it was more trouble than it was worth. Now I’ll will add this claims application and report on how it goes in 2026 hopefully

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @j7hB75 5h

I’m slowly shifting to living on zero and I use YNAB to budget. I’m documenting this experiment and hope to report back later this year on my findings.

This will be a follow up post to my post from December 2024.

205 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 25 Feb

The thought of selling bitcoin for dollars is painful.

Indeed. The thought of spending instead of stacking is painful enough.

Thanks for sharing.

157 sats \ 2 replies \ @Aardvark 25 Feb

That sounds really difficult. I keep the absolute bare minimum fiat just to get bu, specially because of the headache of dealing with taxes.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB OP 23h

Yeah the tax thing can really screw people if you lack good spreadsheet skills and overall tracking of your sats

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 22h

I imagine. My spreadsheets probably aren't detailed enough. I just track what I paid. The fee, btc price, sats received, and date of purchase. I can't imagine trying to figure out the cost of the bitcoin im now selling to pay my credit card....

107 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 25 Feb

Let’s hope this gets easier over time as more merchants accept bitcoin as payment.

102 sats \ 2 replies \ @jerrybature 25 Feb

The challenge is that there are far less bitcoin spenders. The problem is not with the merchants because most people do not request to pay with bitcoin. (And most people are so convenient with the fiat payment systems such that it's difficult for them to turn to bitcoin, at this stage). Once there is enough demand for payment in bitcoin by spenders definitely the merchants have no choice but to supply means of bitcoin payments.

45 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB OP 23h

It’s also the tax thing. Companies don’t want to deal with the hassle and paying extra to a CPA to complete their taxes

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @jerrybature 23h

Agreed.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @moptosh 25 Feb

beautiful philosophy

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lux 25 Feb

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @standard_sats 25 Feb

Just use Valet ♦️ with fiat channels where it is possible or simply before going offramp.

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/finance.valet/

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Coinsreporter 25 Feb

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88 sats \ 2 replies \ @dayOldDonuts 25 Feb

I take loan against it at the beginning of a month. This particularly ease my tax compliance as I'm not selling. But I never let my loan go above 50% for risk.