Do you believe in authority? \ stacker news ~AskSN

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1016 sats \ 41 comments \ @javier 17 Feb AskSN

Other than yourself, do you think there is an authority, like a government, that has the right to tell you what you can and cannot do, and force you to do some things, like paying taxes?

Yes, we need authority.21.4%

No, only me.78.6%

42 votes \ poll ended

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30 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 18 Feb

The authority like we have today is a biiiiigggg NOooo. This authority is more like the creator of problems than the solver.

54 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Feb

If available, I would have taken the intermediate view that we can vest authority in others voluntarily and of course they can tell me to get the hell off of their property.

23 sats \ 1 reply \ @javier OP 17 Feb

Well, that is relayed authority, it's yours in the end. But it has to be voluntary, otherwise it is forced.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Feb

The first part is. The second part is when other people can legitimately tell me what to do (within certain parameters), because I'm in their sphere of authority.

35 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 17 Feb

There is authority and there is coercive authority.

The latter is an act of aggression and when I'm aggressed upon I have every right to defend myself, by any means necessary.

Which doesn't mean it's the most practical thing to do. But even if they throw me in a cage for defending myself, I still had that right, it just wasn't respected, because that's what coercive authority does: it disrespects the rights of the individual.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 17 Feb

Good answer

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @userbob6 17 Feb

People will govern themselves to the extent that they begin to form separate tribes. This is what nature has shown us. Authority is respect, if you think about it. It is either given or taken. Those who give it, will receive it. Those who take it will have it taken from them.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake 17 Feb

Authority is different from power.

Some have the Power to inflict harm on me for not yielding to their requests. E.g. the police hit you with sticks or lock you up if you disobey the "authorities". That's power, to inflict harm.

But it's up to my authority over myself whether I oblige the requests of the so-called "authorities".

If this example doesn't make much sense because you think that the government has authority, you could adjust the framing of it... consider a world without a government, just think of the police as a gang of hooligans who are paid to enforce the desires of some collection of mobsters.

42 sats \ 11 replies \ @Aardvark 17 Feb

I think authority is not only good, it's necessary. HOWEVER following authority blindly is the root of the most evil acts that this world has seen.

I'm fine with giving someone authority to make certain decisions under the agreement that if I find those decisions to be wrong or immoral, I will replace that person, or just stop following their decisions.

Even a voluntary organization can benefit from leadership.

122 sats \ 5 replies \ @aljaz 17 Feb

Voluntary organisation selecting a leader for a project is not equal to someones authority over you.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Aardvark 17 Feb

It is to an extent. I've given my company the authority to make some decisions over my life that I don't always agree with, but for compensation. I can always terminate this contract. That's why I said following authority blindly is evil. I dont follow my company blindly, if they said kill someone I'd quit. I've only agreed to give them authority very specific things.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @aljaz 17 Feb

this is voluntary by you, you can walk away any moment (at least theoretically, then given the horrible nature of the nanny states theres potentially 100 laws preventing that and forcing both you and the employer into god knows what, but at least you've agreed to it when you agreed to the employment). With state's authority you really can't. You're born into servitude and it takes extreme measures to get out of it, and that will limit your freedoms in other direction (if you give up your passport/citizenship) and live in the wilderness somewhere you will likely have a very hard time traveling to other places that have boarders and require you to have permission to enter them

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Aardvark 17 Feb

Basically what i said to @DarthCoin I think we're all in overall agreement that government = bad. I may be using the word "authority" differently than you, but ultimately we agree, and are on the same side of this debate.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @javier OP 17 Feb

Anyway you should be careful, because you first start calling authority when it is voluntary, and you end up accepting, because of ignorance or mal-education, any kind of authority. We should make a clear distinction between leadership and authority. One implies voluntary participation, the other one implies submission.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 17 Feb

I'm fine on agreeing on a definition for the context of a discussion. If we are using your definition of authority, then I agree.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

Please watch this short video and after that tell me that you still sustain what you just said:

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Aardvark 17 Feb

I agree with that video,and I don't believe in the governments right to act immorally. We are on the same page, so let me try to clarify what I was saying.

I have given my company the authority to make decisions on my behalf. They have chosen a code of conduct that I must follow along with a dress code. I agree with these rules in return for compensation.

I have NOT given the government the authority to make decisions on my behalf, therefore I do not believe in their authority.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

That is a contractual clause not delegation of authority. You agree with something in exchange for something.

Authority comes from author. You cannot delegate your own author-ity, it's only yours. What you can delegate, indeed, is to act in your behalf, but that is power of attorney.

Whoever have any authority over you, it means slavery. They OWN you.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 17 Feb

I think I'm using a different definition of authority, but I do 100% agree with your stance. I'm not going to quibble over semantics and the definition of words, just know that we are under complete agreement of the broader issue.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @javier OP 17 Feb

Voluntary leadership is not authority. Authority is when somebody tells you you must do whatever he wants, regardless if you voluntarily agreed before or not.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @CheezeGrater 17 Feb

The right, no, the power, yes.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @javier OP 17 Feb

It's a proper distinction.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @suraz 17 Feb

10 sats \ 14 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

I wonder what a religious person would say about "authority". Do they consider a god as an "authority" to obey?

For this question, I will bring here one of the Lux pills: #637132 that most of the people ignore it.

100 sats \ 6 replies \ @Lux 17 Feb

it's the tool for freedom: God.

Because The Scriptures are the written document, to free the plebeian slaves from debt/sin.

In commerce, the creator is the author and makes the rules. By declaring yourself a man, God's creature, you have protection in law.

By declaring yourself a person (graven image), creation of someone else, you are at the mercy of the creator of that person.

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @Solomonsatoshi 17 Feb

Religion is a tool used by politicians to legitimate their authority over citizens. Amazing how well it works. People want to be sheeple because there is safety in the fenced flock and the forest is dark and dangerous.

117 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lux 17 Feb

they use private trusts/corporations posing as religious and government authorities

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 17 Feb

God is a lie like the Fiat invented to control and oppress ... invented to find the favor of the plebs, who never had anything and from below always looked suspiciously at those above. The religious leaders who invented the trick of religion, only did so for the purpose of use, but remember that the human being is ignorant of birth, so it is vulnerable to manipulation and brainwashing.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

Well said. We should make another poll asking "do you consider yourself a person" ? 😂😂

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Lux 17 Feb

actions speak louder than words

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

LOL we already "killed" any other possible discussion on OP question.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasonb 17 Feb

A lowercase "god" (as in some supernatural being among many that may simply be more powerful than humans): no

But if we're talking about God in the sense of a supreme being: unequivocally yes

I'd pose, for those that don't believe such a capital G God exists, if he did, would THAT being be worthy of authority?

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @javier OP 17 Feb

If there is a God that created you, then the rules are already intrinsic and you obey them by instinct.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

I think there's only one rule that god raise upon people and is very simple:

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 17 Feb

There is no god you fool. Just frightened weak and vulnerable people seeking organised power structures to enhance their wealth and safety in competition with other groups of frightened vulnerable people. Its called government- the state - and without it they are helpless shivering wretches.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 17 Feb

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

The corollary of this: if the gov didn't create me (as living man), then have NO authority over me. The gov have authority only over the CORPORATION they've created (the name in CAPITAL LETTERS - Capitis deminutio and #558541)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 17 Feb

The government have the authority people choose surrender to them. People want government as it can protect and enrich them. Try living without any government and see how long you last. In the absence of government the first thing humans do is begin to form government...it is fundamental to human survival, security and the wealth of nations.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 17 Feb

There should be a third option. Voluntary delegation of authority. IE, contractual. I think we do need authorities to function as a society but it should be delegated. My employer has authority over what I do from 9-5 but that is an agreement either party can break.

People will say one can leave the US and renounce their citizenship but this means they must move somewhere else where the system is likely the same or worse. A state has a monopoly on the use of violence over a geographic area and its not truly voluntary. There is only lip service to consent. When put under scrutiny the delegation and consent logic falls apart.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @electrickmoney 17 Feb

I went to a naval academy and always had a problem with “authority”. At the beginning I got in a lot of fights with “higher ranked” cadets.. kids that thought they had authority over me… f them.. I always did what I thought was best for me, and never listened to them. I don’t like when people tell me what to do.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 17 Feb

more like:

No, only competence.