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109 sats \ 7 replies \ @freetx 12 Feb 2025 \ on: The government doesn't use SQL (or Elon has never used SQL) devs

Its a complicated question to answer because we don't have enough data. A few points:

  • As of last count US Treasury used 30 different COBOL based systems to process payments, there was a bill passed around 2020 to modernize these and bring them all within a single application, however not sure what status is (probably not done)
  • The original COBOL systems did not use SQL (since it wasn't invented yet). Instead they used VSAM (Virtual Storage Access Method) a popular IBM creation in 70s, also used Flat Files, and DB2
  • While DB2 (an IBM database), is now a SQL database, its original incantation was more difficult to describe. It was accessible via SQL dialect from within COBOL programs but was originally all part of the "system" (ie it was tightly integrated with everything else and not originally accessible as a "separate SQL DB")
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9 sats \ 5 replies \ @Bell_curve 12 Feb 2025

which came first, SQL or relational databases?

If Treasury uses COBOL, then their systems think the year is 1925

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9 sats \ 4 replies \ @freetx 12 Feb 2025

Yes, System R (another IBM product) was widely considered to be first commercial relational db. This was late 60s I think.....sometime in the 70s that "migrated" into what we know as SQL.

Interestingly, really "SQL" is just the query language....so what we call "SQL DB" is a relational database with a "SQL Syntax" interface.

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9 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 12 Feb 2025

I guess SSN is not a primary key

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109 sats \ 2 replies \ @freetx 12 Feb 2025

Even if its not a primary key, it could still have UNIQUE constraint applied.

I imagine there a valid reasons why they don't have it set. The amount of people either unintentionally or intentionally using the wrong SSN is probably non-trivial. Having it as a unique/primary key would prohibit you from doing some other transaction involving that person.....

I mean technically a SSN is "only" supposed to refer to your social security account, it was never intended to become a universal identifier....

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 12 Feb 2025

I can't wait for the next judical activist to rule on primary keys, foreign keys, unique constraints, inner/outer joins.

No master/slave architecture! 13th amendment prohibits any kind of slave.

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 12 Feb 2025

Is there a good reason for using the wrong SSN?

#883712

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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @zuspotirko OP 12 Feb 2025
It was accessible via SQL dialect from within COBOL programs but was originally all part of the "system"

I see this at work sometimes. On IBMs zOS it is possible to read data from the database without going through DB2 SQL itself. This is also the reason why DB2 handles shemas and users in a quirky way.

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