"Bitcoin is not appropriate for an 80 year old" (part 2) \ stacker news ~Stacker

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"Bitcoin is not appropriate for an 80 year old" (part 2)

2375 sats \ 31 comments \ @grayruby 19h Stacker_Stocks

Well, that was fun. Quite a few comments to part 1 yesterday.

I was actually highly impressed with the quality of responses and the lack of visceral fervor. Most takes were quite reasoned and positioned to argue why Bitcoin is appropriate for all ages. There were some really great arguments. A few emotional responses but I expected that and no one wished a horrible, impoverished death upon our unsuspecting 80 year. Overall, really good, thoughtful responses considering I totally baited you guys. (A true testament to the quality of discussion and user on SN)

My biggest takeaway is you guys all assumed the 80 year old was the person who said this. Wrong!

Everyone presumed this was a Christmas dinner orange pill attempt and the old, set in their ways, boomer arrogantly scoffed at the idea they should buy bitcoin. Au contraire mon amis.

The dastardly, fiat maxi snake that uttered these words was none other than: Me

"What? grayruby you turncoat, rat bastard. How could you say something so imbecilic?"

Here is the full context and the full quote:

My father in law sold his house in Texas around six months ago and moved in with my wife's sister. He has a large lump sum of money from the house sale that is ever growing because he has almost no expenses now living with his daughter other than pitching in a bit for food and covering his own day to day expenses. His grandson (my wife's brother's early 20s son) has been trying to pitch him on giving him the money to invest. My wife and her sister are adamant that he doesn't do this because the kid has taken his money before for "investments" and lost it. He agreed giving the money to the kid to invest would probably not be the wisest idea. So somehow, unbeknownst to me, I got assigned as his financial advisor.

After Christmas dinner, my wife starts telling me all about this situation regarding her dad, his money and her nephew and that her dad wanted to talk to me before he did anything with the money. I said "sure I will talk to him tomorrow" but 10 minutes later she had me on a facetime call with her dad, and her sister. Ultimately, they just wanted to give me the money to invest but I said NO. I told them if either my wife or her sister want to hold the money I will help them with how to invest it but I didn't want to be in control of the money. So they agreed my wife would be the treasurer of this little endeavor and I would be the defacto chief investment officer.

I know you are thinking "grayruby this explains nothing, you are still a dastardly fiat maxi snake, turncoat, rat bastard".

Anyways, moving on. In the midst of our conversation my wife's sister brought up Bitcoin. Everyone in my wife's family of course know me as a big "bitcoin guy". Fortunately, they seem to perceive my relatively earliness to Bitcoin as being shrewd not lucky or that's at least what they present outwardly. They also know me as the business guy because I owned my own business, thus assume I am decent with finances. So, she is asking me if he should own Bitcoin or is it "too risky for him". A valid question, and I will spare you the 5 minute soliloquy I gave about portfolio construction, volatility, compound annual growth rate, sharpe ratio. Just kidding, I didn't talk about any of that, they would have all fallen asleep. I simply said "yes, he should own Bitcoin as part of his portfolio but likely no more than 10%. A large allocation to Bitcoin is not appropriate for an 80 year old."

So there you have it. You can proceed to call me a dastardly, fiat maxi snake, turncoat, rat bastard for not telling my 80 year old father in law to sell his chairs to buy Bitcoin.

Sats for all, GR

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51 sats \ 2 replies \ @TheMorningStar 8h

I wonder when we gonna see fiat like very low volatility in Bitcoin's value (Not talking about Btc/usd). Would that be the day when Bitcoin is used by everyone as a medium of exchange?

Until then it's definitely not appropriate for so much old person.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby OP 6h

Many more years but I think volatility is starting to come down. I don’t think we will have another 70% drawdown next bear market. But I also don’t think we will 10x in a bull market.

92 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheMorningStar 6h

Yes, I agree. Without a drop down in volatility to almost 1% which is also more, I don't think they will start selling products and services in Bitcoin (without having an exchange price). Let's hope it comes faster so that we can see in our lives.

41 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 10h

Grayruby, you dastardly, fiat maxi snake, turncoat, rat bastard!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 8h

Fair

51 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryotosensei 17h

I know you are thinking "grayruby this explains nothing, you are still a dastardly fiat maxi snake, turncoat, rat bastard".

On the contrary, I thought your response was well intentioned and level-headed. Wealth preservation mode, indeed. I do think that some Bitcoiners do take it quite personally when others don’t go all in on sats, but you articulated how it is not a one-size-fits-all solution even if Bitcoin is the best money out there. At the end of the day, it is a tool, not something to attribute our identity to

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 16h

Well said. I was of course joking around about the rat bastard thing but yes some bitcoiners are a bit aggressive in their expectations of the rest of the world thinking exactly as they do.

58 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 19h

Lol if I were to advise an 80 year old I'd say enjoy your money and eat it up, try to leave nothing for the next generation, give them the gift of building their own wealth the right way, the hard way! Having Bitcoin without going through the process of stacking and hodling means you miss out on the lesson and reality of wealth buidling

61 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 19h

You didn't fool me. I thought it was you, but that was based on a vague recollection of a comment on SN that you may or may not have made.

Why 10%, though? That seems low, but I could imagine plenty of ways to land on it.

33 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby OP 19h

I pulled 10% out of my ass. It was in the midst of my grilling for the CIO job I didn't apply. Haha. I think 10% is about right though. Likely enough to insure the purchasing power of the initial investment is preserved and grows if he lives many years into the future but is small enough that if he has an adverse health outcome in the next few years and needs liquidity he doesn't have to sell his Bitcoin in the midst of a bear market to pay for care his daughter can't provide.

51 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 18h

needs liquidity he doesn't have to sell his Bitcoin

That's basically what I was thinking. If I had to think through my parents' or in-laws' finances, I wouldn't want them converting in and out, so I'd leave them enough liquid fiat assets to meet foreseeable expenses.

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 17h

should definitely be higher than zero but not too high

says the guy who recommended 50 percent

51 sats \ 7 replies \ @Satosora 19h

I dont think that is bad in any way. At least he has some exposure, and he is comfortable with where his money is. He might regret that he didnt invest a higher percentage, but it is better than having the nephew lose it.

31 sats \ 6 replies \ @grayruby OP 19h

He should be focusing on preserving wealth not growing it and that is the whole idea. There is already some other money set aside to go to the grandkids for their education when he passes away. This is just to preserve and maybe grow a little of what he has in case some years down the road his health requires him to need more care than his daughter can provide.

51 sats \ 5 replies \ @Satosora 19h

I dont think it is a bad idea. He should be comfortable with where he is putting his money. There is no reason to have undue stress. It wont really matter, as time goes on, it will become a bigger part of his portfolio. The percentage will rise because his 10% bitcoin will become more valuable compared to everything else he has invested in.

11 sats \ 4 replies \ @grayruby OP 18h

Exactly

80 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 17h

maybe have a nest egg for medical expenses?

or he can buy a gun in case his insurance denies his claim

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby OP 16h

My father in law has enough guns to arm the entire block. Haha.

40 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 16h

I forgot he is in Texas

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 16h

Most of my wife's immediate family has moved out of California.

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92 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 19h

10 percent allocation is fine for your father in law

I would even go as high as 50 percent

good call on making your wife or sister the treasurer and you are the advisor, de facto

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 19h

He has money set aside for the grandkids to go towards their education or their first home. His kids don't really need money everyone is doing just fine, so he is really in wealth preservation mode and I want to protect against a health outcome where he would need more care than his daughter can provide and needed to sell Bitcoin at the wrong time. Wouldn't want him to have to sell a couple years down the road during a bear market. Hopefully that doesn't happen but it's a potential outcome for an 80 year old.

40 sats \ 1 reply \ @denlillaapan 19h

I know you are thinking "grayruby this explains nothing, you are still a dastardly fiat maxi snake, turncoat, rat bastard".

pff, definitely all of these things. And unrelated to the post, amirite

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 19h

Guilty as charged.

40 sats \ 3 replies \ @Coinsreporter 19h

I'm in an utter confusion about your inspiration to deny a full 100% investment into Bitcoin. What really inspired you to allocate 90% to somewhere else?

73 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby OP 19h

The fact that two years from now if his health fails and he needs the money to get care that his daughter can't provide and Bitcoin is in the middle of a 70% drawdown due to a bear market, he doesn't get screwed.

He is in wealth preservation mode, not wealth accumulation mode.

51 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinsreporter 19h

This makes sense. My parents are in early 60s but I won't force them to invest their preserved money mostly fot the same reason you gave. But because I'm their son, I've fixed 3M Sats by the name of parents funds with my own money. I'm that kinda man. I've bitcoin funds for everyone in my family including my two months daughter.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 18h

That's awesome. I hold bitcoin for my parent's as well and of course my kiddos have their sats.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Miranda 18h

I was looking forward to the second part of the story, and evidently as I posted earlier any age is good to generate bitcoin, in the case of the story the grandfather should grab and invest in assets such as real estate, food, water, elements that will always be necessary and profitable, but accumulate your bitcoin will be that treasure that will grab forces and will be wider the sum of money than the same assets that generate,. has every chance of winning. with good advice, and an efficient treasury. hahahah

sats for all. thanks for sharing and excellent jor

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @flat24 15h

This event leaves a question in me. If we know that Fiat is burning in our hands month after month, then why do you only think I should have 10%? And what would you do with the rest? Continue in soft money or in financial instruments with counterparty risk?

I think he should move all his money to bitcoin, live with the little, and let time and scarcity do their work for the next generation since the owner of that capital will soon be on the way out, and let him live his last years in peace.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 15h

“This event leaves a question in me. If we know that Fiat is burning in our hands month after month, then why do you only think I should have 10%?”

I don’t think you should only have 10%. You should have whatever amount you want. I think my 80 year old father in law should have only 10%.

The biggest risk for him in terms of bitcoin is needing to sell during a bear market. Let’s say he goes all in Bitcoin now and in the next bear market it drops by 70% again and he has an unexpected health scare and needs money for care that my sister in law can’t provide and that he can’t cover with his pension and social security. That would be a bad outcome for him.

In my opinion 10% in bitcoin gives him the upside potential and likely preserves the purchasing power of his entire portfolio and more if he lives another 10-15-20 years but if the worst case scenario happens in the next couple years having only 10% won’t put him in a bad spot if he would need to liquidate some assets to pay for care.