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231 sats \ 16 replies \ @SimpleStacker 20 Dec \ on: Why do we grade kids at all? #13 BTC teacher in Fiat Madland alter_native
I have the same dilemma. Every teacher has to find the balance they are comfortable with. You are right that one of the suckiest things about teaching is that every incentive just pushes you towards a low-effort approach that makes everyone happy but results in no learning.
Let me tell you what I do and what my philosophy is, and you can let me know what you think. I'd also be interested in hearing from @cryotosensei who is also a teacher.
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Multiple choice tests
- I do use these. I find that it's a necessary balance between the need to assess learning outcomes and my time available to grade. These can test critical thinking skills if you give a tricky problem. However, they are not good at testing communication skills and are prone to guessing/cheating.
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Individual writing assignments
- I do these as well, but I use an AI grading tool that gives them instant feedback regarding grammar, flow, and structure. The good thing about this is by the time their writing gets to me, it is easier to read. Without it, I will get absolutely unreadable essays. This does not violate my conscience because I do not consider it part of my duties to teach them to write. (They should already know how, but many don't.)
- Beyond the grammar and structure which is graded by AI, I give a simplistic rating on the content. Either below/meets/exceeds expectations. Generally, I just look at their writing briefly and ask: "Is there anything obviously wrong about this?", and "Does this make me want to read it more carefully since it looks like there's something interesting here?"
- Again, the need is to balance time with learning. I figure that by making them write and think about it is already a valuable learning experience, whether or not the grade is fully reflective of their competence.
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Group projects
- These are the assignments that really integrate all of a student's skills, including executive function, communication, and analytical ability.
- However, I do not have time to grade individualized projects, so I assign them in groups.
- The downside is a lot of deadbeat students free-ride off the efforts of their better peers.
- The upside is that the good students can really shine on these projects. I've had some great projects where students could showcase their skills.
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Overall philosophy
- In the end, my philosophy is that those who don't want to learn won't, and those that do will.
- In every class, there is a mix of those who want to learn and those who don't.
- For those who don't want to learn, I acknowledge (to myself, not explicitly) that we are just playing a stupid game with each other. I really don't care what happens to these students and what grade they get. They get whatever grade they deserve according to the rules I set. Usually, they do the bare minimum to get the grade they want. I figure that by doing this bare minimum, they hopefully at least learned something that maybe will be useful to them one day in the future.
- For those that want to learn, I want to ensure that my class gives them the opportunity to acquire valuable skills, knowledge, and experience.
A reflection of how my philosophy plays out is the group projects. Yes, it is unfair that the good students do most of the work, but the way I see it is that they are acquiring a valuable experience. The bad students are able to get a decent grade by free-riding off others, but the grade itself is just part of the dumb game, so I don't let it bother me. Usually, they do badly enough in their individual assignments that the good students end up with better grades, despite having the same grades on the group project.
- On cheating
- Honestly, I've never seen cheating to be a big enough problem. Even for things like multiple choice tests, I know cheating is not rampant because the students usually do so poorly on it anyway. I'm sure there are a handful that teach, but on the whole it doesn't seem to be a huge concern in my context.
- This plays out differently if the test is computerized, though. So because of that, all my tests are on paper, not on computer.
Edit:
- Class discussions
- Forgot to mention, I do some class discussions as well. These tend not to be graded in any way.
- However, I think that even for the students who don't care about learning, this is where they might get the most of the class, because this is where we discuss high level concepts and how they apply to the real world in a non-technical manner that is helpful in shaping how the students view the world. This is where we can discuss things like the ill effects of rent control or how zoning regulations cause housing shortages.
- Since the topics deal with issues of current interest, the students are usually more engaged, even the ones who don't seem to care about learning or who aren't technically competent with the rest of the classwork.
Thank you for this candid and comprehensive coverage of your testing methods and philosophies. I bookmarked your comment & consider it as part of my professional development.
I think it’s awesome that you set yourself a boundary that it’s not your job to teach your kids how to write. Setting boundaries is so vital to assuaging teacher’s guilt (because there is always more that we can do for our students but if we keep giving n giving and have nothing left in our tank, are we good for our students). It sets your mind free to focus on impart content and critical thinking skills. I can feel your conviction with regard to your classroom discussions xP. Even for unmotivated and least-progress students, I believe that they can be reached. Taking the focus on assessments and just exploring how to apply this concept encourages them to process the content. And this is the best we can do in our classroom.
Given that you @Shugard is going to be a father soon, I would suggest that you explore structures and processes so that you can replicate your assessments year after year rather than have to slog through students’ work every year.
In regard to your resistance about MCQ tests, how about giving your students a list of high-frequency, high-utility words at the start of your course? I teach dyslexic students myself and find that preteaching the vocab gives them more time to assimilate it into their minds. Also, when you set tests, I’m sure you will keep your sentences short and sweet and use images and charts and diagrams to aid reading. Perhaps you can design the kind of MCQ test that you yourself will be challenged and excited to take.
In regard to writing assignments, instead of essays, would case studies be feasible? In Singapore, for economics, we have a paper in which students are required to apply their understanding of concepts on case studies, let’s say inflation in the developed world. If you want to raise the bar, you can have two case studies and get them to compare between them *cue evil laugh 👿 *. The good thing about case studies is that you break the marks allocation assigned for an essay into smaller parts, say 3-4 questions. This makes marking more manageable and breaks the monotony. Your students will also benefit because they will be less likely to lose control of their ideas while writing haha.
The last thing I want to say is that we use a Terms of Specification which is aligned with Bloom’s Taxnomony. Specifically, when we set a major assessment, we must allocate 50% to remembering and understanding, 30% to applying and analysing and 20% to evaluating or even creating. Something like that. I think this will help you when you craft your tests. Even if you set straightforward items that you deem as giveaway questions, you don’t have to feel so shitty about it because hey, you have the remaining 20% aimed to protect the integrity of your assessment.
Just my two sats’ worth
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and use images and charts and diagrams to aid reading
Honestly, I never thought about that! Sometimes the simplest solutions go under when you overthink it too much. This is something I can work with in MCQs. THANKS!
In regard to writing assignments, instead of essays, would case studies be feasible?
As a student, I loved case studies! They were my favorites! There was no bullshit writing knowledge back on the paper, but thinking about solutions to cases. But! Questin being here, are there case studies for 10th grade kids with little to no understanding? And if so, is that not a lot of reading in the grading? So a lot of time again?
we must allocate 50% to remembering and understanding, 30% to applying and analysing and 20% to evaluating or even creating.
Legally, I have to do that as well. 60% remember. 30% Using what I remember. 10% critical thinking. While most of my colleagues do 80% remembering and 20% applying and no critical thinking, I do 20% remembering, 50% applying and 30% critical thinking.
None of us teachers are audited by our overlords and I set the bar much higher than the others, which leads to my dilemma.
But thinking about what you said, I may be able to find my peace with MCQ and give it 50% and 50% of a mix on applied and critical thinking.
Thanks a lot!
@SimpleStacker and @cryotosensei Mixing both of your ideas and throwing in my own mix will help me craft and think about this over the holidays and hopefully come up with a more time efficient but still fair grading system in the end! Thank you for your contribution!
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These can test critical thinking skills
Multiple-choice questions test reading comprehension.
I myself grew up with dyslexia, I could solve the shit out of everything for my age. But I could not read the questions.
Your individual writing assignments sound super interesting! What kind of AI grading tool do you use and what is the task like that the kids have to solve? please enlighten me!
I agree with your assessment of group projects, I am still getting better at them and they are more fun for the kids and much less time consuming for me.
Forgot to mention, I do some class discussions as well. These tend not to be graded in any way.
This was my go to grade! One grade the kids can earn throughout the semester and two grades I have to assign. But since the state I work in has changed its policies and rules, it is no longer allowed because it would discriminate against the kids who are afraid to speak.
Other than that, I agree with most of what you say. I think it is just my pride and my own experience as a student that I am against multiple choice.
But I am very curious about the structure of your writing exams!
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One of the good things about the US education system is that it is very progressive towards disabilities. A student with dyslexia would be offered increased time and perhaps a separate testing environment. Maybe even someone to help read the questions, depending on the situation. I had to work with a blind student before and I actually made written descriptions of all the graphs... it was a lot of work, but the blind student got a great grade!
The AI tool is called Packback. The writing assignments are varied, but one example is: "Assess what you think about this policy being proposed in this year's ballot."
It's open ended, but I usually lead a discussion session about the writing assignment topic before it's due, so that the students have a jumping off point to think about.
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is this the right link?
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yep
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I have a friend who teaches math/science in Santa Monica (Crossroads).
He told me: I have opposed grading for years. I support mastery transcripts: no letter grades, all grades are narratives
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Oh, no way. We live near that area and visited Crossroads as a possible choice for sending one of our kids.
I understand where your friend is coming from, but I don't think it's always practical. It could work at a smaller sized private school, but not a large public one.
There also needs to be an objective criterion by which students are held back. To me, the biggest problem in our education system is we're not holding back kids who should be.
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Crossroads is expensive and has too many Hollywood elitists.
They were woke before it was trendy for schools to be woke.
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Sadly, non-woke options are few and far between in Commiefornia
You have to be flexible about multiple choice, don't underestimate the importance of reading comprehension.
Have you seen previous exams of AP Economics (USA)?
Harvey Mansfield taught government at Harvard, He gave his students 2 grades: one grade is for your transcript, the second grade is the grade you deserved
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Very interesting! Thanks for the tip!
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Unlike @SimpleStacker and @cryotosensei I have zero experience teaching teenagers
But I know multiple choice exams can be challenging especially if you don’t know the material
Case studies can be fun because students can see that economics has real world value
What are the economic effects of Germany shutting down nuclear power plants?
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Multiple choice tests are underrated
note: I am not a teacher
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What do you mean by underrated?
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