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BEWARE - Portugal taxes BTC at 28% if you leave!!
3022 sats \ 36 comments \ @funchal 17 Dec bitcoin
Whilst disposals of Bitcoin in Portugal ARE tax free if you are a tax resident and you haven't transacted for one year (FIFO), this is only true if:
  • You sell for actual fiat, eg on an exchange
  • You provide all the TX data (using a tool such as Koinly) and REPORT it
If you ever stop being a tax resident in Portugal, unsold bitcoin is considered a "deemed disposal" and 28% of your BTC is due to the tax-man.
What's that you say? You pulled it out of the exchange and into a cold wallet? This info is shared, remember.. And the burden of proof (ie, where it went and how it went) is on you. Boating accidents aren't helpful, any more than setting fire to your fiat salary would be.
There are some workarounds (eg, gifting). If others have insights, do share.
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271 sats \ 3 replies \ @freetx 17 Dec
I'm trying to understand....please help
  1. I'm a normal person living my life....I have BTC in a hardware wallet. Sometimes I send to an exchange if I need to sell.
  2. I decide to move. I get on plane (with USB hardware wallet) and leave.
  3. I'm in new country, I unpack and take out my hardware wallet and connect to PC
now what?
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 17 Dec
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Skipper 17 Dec
Sometimes I send to an exchange if I need to sell.
Why not just Robosats or any other darknet P2P site/app?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OgFOMK 17 Dec
No one has their Bitcoin. Some people have their keys.
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130 sats \ 5 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 17 Dec
In Portugal, donations (gifting?) are taxed. I believe is 10%.
Travel Rule
The TFR will apply from#December 30, 2024 to coincide with the majority of MiCA rules and extends the "travel rule" applicable in traditional finance to crypto-assets. This means information on the source of an asset and its beneficial ownership will have to "travel" with a transaction and be stored on both sides of a transfer.
https://abreuadvogados.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Country-Update-Portugal-Crypto-asset-regulation-2024-revised_VF.pdf
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10 sats \ 4 replies \ @Skipper 17 Dec
10% is still lower than 28% tho
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @anon 17 Dec
0% if gifted to spouse or kids, or if it is under 500 eur
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 17 Dec
I didn't know about spouse or child. Are you sure?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Skipper 17 Dec
So if he gifts to his wife, he dodges the tax. Lmao
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 17 Dec
yes, and so does she so long as she has the right tax jurisdiction
still needs to be reported though
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91 sats \ 10 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Dec
And gullible losers are just going to declare it LOL
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11 sats \ 9 replies \ @Skipper 17 Dec
wHo wilL pAy for The rOadS ????
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52 sats \ 7 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Dec
Bitcoiners do not need roads LOL
https://jetson.com/
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 18 Dec
Have you tried? I thought this was still an experiment, I have heard and seen footages of a drone pilot I think 2 years ago going from Germany to Australia to do just that. In countries like India or Cambodia, I wouldn't need to escape holes in the ground anymore.
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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @SpaceHodler 18 Dec
Bitcoin not accepted though?
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21 sats \ 3 replies \ @funchal OP 18 Dec
You could probably use the concierge service of ShopInBit to purchase one
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Skipper 18 Dec
No, middleman is not really a solution... id rather swap some sats back to fiat via P2P and purchase it directly
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 18 Dec
Shopinbit is an excellent service that help you not going back to fiat. They are doing all the shopping for you.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 18 Dec
THIS
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 18 Dec
yeah sad...
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 18 Dec
wHo wiLl pAy to moNiToR poLitiCiAns to aCtuaLly bUild the roAds and nOt bUy sWimMinG pOolS fOr thEmsElves ????
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @02ad8239c2 18 Dec
All these years actual Bitcoiners (NOT fiat speculators) have been explicitly informing everyone to avoid kYC - there is no excuse for anyone who fails to listen, think, and learn - so many have chosen badly, and will suffer at the hands of whichever state they foolishly complied with... maybe only harsh experience and significant cost will teach them ?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @funchal OP 18 Dec
Buying non-KYC is only really do-able for small amounts
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @Skipper 17 Dec
There are some workarounds (eg, gifting).
What do you mean by this?
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Dec
he wants to give you his sats 😂😂😂
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2 sats \ 0 replies \ @superstacker1 18 Dec
Contact John J. Singleton for ideas. He thinks out of the box.
https://www.aceofcoins.com/
https://t.me/aceofcoins
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1000 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 18 Dec
  1. Yes, if you just purchased BTC on the same year, and you leave or sell them before one full year. Foreigners residents or nationals leaving the country.
  2. Yes, if you are holding for less than one year, you are a Portuguese national resident for over 5 years in Portugal.
And…
All this if you have declared them, and they are on an Exchange under MiCA regulation. And…
  1. No, if you own them more than one year.
  2. All taxes are subject to changes at this moment not only in Portugal but in the whole EU.
  3. There is an Exit tax, not only for BTC but for all the other assets traded in financial markets, as an BTC ETF, 28%, over the potential gains of all of them. if you are a Portuguese national planning to leave, and you have over 5 years resident in Portugal.
There are a couple of special tax regimes for foreigners in Portugal. The NHR in his new model after last year changes includes the exception to taxes over capital gains, that is an improvement over the previous model.
Countries with Exit tax in the EU, are many, and they are switching rules not recognizing former conditions, meaning retroactivity
Run Forrest, run 🏃
As nationals have worst tax rates than the special regimes for foreigners, regulations are being changed in short notice. If you are planning to move, be careful.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @criptopanas 18 Dec
How does the Government know about the unsold bitcoin?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nyan 18 Dec
Fuck the travel rule and fuck regulations. Needed to be said
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bitcoiner1 18 Dec
Could you share the source about this topic?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @funchal OP 18 Dec
Paid legal opinion
The exemption applies to INCOME (category E). If you don't sell (for dirty fiat), there's no income, but there IS an exit tax if you are hodling the day you stop being a tax resident.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @rikbona 18 Dec
I expect crypto taxation to change/evolve a lot in the coming years considering how the public thinking is changing around some assets, so hopefully this won't be a "problem" forever
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @funchal OP 18 Dec
Hopefully it will get better, not worse.
As the value of fiat drops, the amount of KYC BTC lost to tax increases proportionately.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oklar 18 Dec
The nominal amount of local currency increases.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @000w2 18 Dec
So if it is kyc'd, you have to convert it all to fiat; leave; then convert back?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 18 Dec
yes, exactly - back to exchange for a full liquidation
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