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106 sats \ 21 replies \ @Skipper 16 Dec \ on: Is ecash private enough for dark markets? privacy
Monero is more of a cult at this point.
LN has good enough privacy, Liquid-BTC as well. You can always clean the sats further by using bunch of LN wallets and/or swaps. I find coinjoins to be a little too expensive, even when fees are 2-3 sats/vB.
You won't find anything good on darknets anyways. It's mostly drugs. Don't do drugs.
The question was about ecash and its privacy features.
I don't know much about darknets because I believe as you said it's mostly for drugs and other stuff that I'm not into. But these edge cases do bring some important questions about privacy characteristics that money should have. There is no real freedom without privacy and a good form of money should allow individuals to transact without revealing what they do.
I don't do drugs but I am ready to defend your right to get high if you want to, it's your life it's your choice. Can ecash accomplish that?
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There is no real freedom without privacy and a good form of money should allow individuals to transact without revealing what they do.
If we didn't have coinjoins, swaps, LN, liquid-btc, eCash, then Monero might be useful. As things stand now, I see no point in using Monero.
Bitcoin is a superior form of money, and LN already provides good privacy for all people, except perhaps the darknet drug junkies who have their brains fried.
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I see no point in using Monero.
it's cheap and easy to use privately and you don't need to run a node to receive payments
except perhaps the darknet drug junkies who have their brains fried.
so you're saying it does not provide good privacy for the people who need it the most and that privacy on lightning depends on the government not caring enough about finding you which can change which should mean it does not have good privacy
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Your point against Monero is that they are cult, are you serious?
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Not so much a cult, just ultimately a shitcoin that offers no technical benefits over Liquid.
Monero may be "good" as a transactional coin, but one should never hold it for any length of time. In that sense its more like an eCash in practice.
Meanwhile, since LBTC (Liquid BTC) is in fact backed by real BTC (BTC is put into a verifiable multisig and equivalent amount of LBTC is minted), it makes it more suitable for holding for more than just immediate term use.
I'm not recommending anyone use Liquid-BTC as long-term storage, but certainly its fine for holding for medium term use of a few months or whatever.
Since LBTC can be utilized to send Lightning payments it offers all the technical benefits of LN with the "confidential transactions" of Monero and the security/debasement protection of BTC.
Monero is an idea which was cool in 2016 or whatever, but it no longer severs a purpose.
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Matthew Kratter calls monero it 'hot potato' money, which i think is quite accurate
Monero and Liquid BTC serve different purposes, and dismissing Monero ignores its unique value:
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Privacy: Monero offers default privacy with ring signatures, stealth addresses, and RingCT, ensuring full anonymity. Liquid BTC’s Confidential Transactions only hide amounts, not identities or links.
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Decentralization: Monero is trustless, while Liquid relies on a federation to maintain the peg, making it less censorship-resistant and more centralized.
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Store of Value: Monero’s capped supply and growing adoption as a private transactional currency support its long-term value. The claim it’s unsuitable for holding is speculative.
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Lightning Comparison: Monero’s low fees make second-layer solutions unnecessary for small transactions, avoiding Lightning’s complexity and custodial risks.
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Adoption: Monero is a proven tool for private, uncensored transactions in real-world use cases, offering a level of privacy and decentralization unmatched by Liquid or BTC.
Monero remains indispensable for those needing true financial sovereignty, privacy, and trustless operation.
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Liquid BTC’s Confidential Transactions only hide amounts, not identities or links.
Using Liquid cross chain with LN (onion routing) solves those issues.
Decentralization: Monero is trustless, while Liquid relies on a federation to maintain the peg, making it less censorship-resistant and more centralized.
True
Store of Value: Monero’s capped supply ....The claim it’s unsuitable for holding is speculative.
Prove it. There is no way you can have both "hidden amounts" and "provable supply cap". The entire reason Liquid opted not to hide amounts was to avoid this issue.
Monero’s low fees make second-layer solutions unnecessary for small transactions, avoiding Lightning’s complexity and custodial risks.
Basically true.
Adoption: Monero is a proven tool for private, uncensored transactions in real-world use cases, offering a level of privacy and decentralization unmatched by Liquid or BTC.
Outside of silk-road / dark-web, monereo has no real use. In fact, a legitimate website or company would be barred from accepting monero because of the regulatory risk involved. This basically paints a huge target on all monero users and isolates you for further scrutiny.
The entire benefit of Liquid+LN combo is that you have gained the confidential aspects but are still using the most widely accepted form of crypto....
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Liquid + LN may suit niche scenarios, but Monero provides unmatched privacy, decentralization, and simplicity for real-world, censorship-resistant use.
Liquid + LN adds complexity but doesn’t achieve Monero’s default privacy. LN requires on-chain BTC to open channels, leaving a trail. Monero's privacy is built-in no need for additional layers or tools to obscure sender, receiver, and amounts.
Adoption and use cases of Monero highlight its true value: a permissionless and uncensorable currency. It's not just for the dark web but it's widely used by individuals and organizations needing financial privacy. Liquid, tied to BTC, still relies on a trusted federation, making it less ideal in censorship-prone environments.
Associating Monero solely with illicit use is outdated. Privacy is a right, not a crime. Legitimate use cases (e.g., donations, salary payments) grow as awareness of financial surveillance increases. Monero users aren’t 'isolated'; they’re safeguarded from mass surveillance.
Where to buy or trade monero?
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ok boomer
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Monero is more of a cult at this point.
hmm... does seem that way sometimes.
on the other hand, Bitcoin is too ;) (or at least it was for a long time. we're a bit more mainstream now)
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