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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @028559d218 OP 2 Dec \ parent \ on: How Bitcoin Scales w/o Forks: the Lightning, Liquid, On-Chain Triangle bitcoin
Thank you for your comment.
There is no way, from what I understand, to give someone 10$ of Bitcoin and have them hold it non-custodially. It doesn't work.
On-chain is too expensive. And they can't 'have lightning' from 10 dollars. The channel opening feel isn't efficient enough at 10$... even if Phoenix allowed them to do it (and they won't anyway). Mutiny wallet if I recall correctly wanted several hundred thousand sats to open... and that's the recommendation elsewhere too.
That 'poor person' in the developing world, or any person for that matter with access to poor-quality money, either gets custodial Bitcoin (which can be taken away) at 10$. Or they can get liquid at 10$ for a short time until they figure out another solution that's on-chain.
Phoenix is great it really is but again the opening fee is too much. Maybe with 50$... or 100$ but what happens if they don't use the wallet again for a while? Or the on-chain fees are too high at that exact moment? It doesn't work that well in my opinion for new users.
Liquid is 24 cents for a transaction and the user will have a channel opened automatically... at the right time. We need to have a serious conversation about this as on-chain transactions for a billion people for every-day transactions is a fantasy it's impossible.
Unfortunately, I don't know what's going on now, I can't send pictures on SN. I currently live in one of the poorest countries in the world, I opened a channel in Phoenix with about 10 dollars, today it would be 15 dollars. Of course, you always have to take into account the mining fees.
Back then I used WoS to accumulate and then I made the transaction to Phoenix via Lightning Network. Problem solved in that case.
But oh well. We always want people to learn and adopt.
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Liquid is a tool like anything else.
When people use lightning everyday, on Stacker News and Nostr, in addition to levels of lightning wallets - custodial, non-custodial, full node, the 'phoenix/LSP model' etc...
In addition to full utxos to move around, things aren't so 'clear cut' and black and white.
Having a tool like liquid with atomic swaps is immensely useful in my opinion to balance security, fees, decentralization, liquidity, sovereignty etc. It's the whole package that matters.
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Liquid is a tool to fool clueless noobs into thinking that is useful and necessary. And Liquid is not decentralized at all. Are just a bunch of federated members.
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How do we onboard the world's poor, non-custodially, to Bitcoin?
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