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After listening to Steve Patterson talk about the blockchain war and Roger Ver’s Book, Hijacking Bitcoin on the Bob Murphy Show I thought I would share my initial thoughts. Bob says he is going to have Stephan Livera on to offer the other side. That one should be good.

Steve's Main Points

  • Small blockers are for SOV not MOE
  • Bitcoin now requires large companies to use (ironic point...)
  • Lightning doesn't work and still requires on-chain transactions and high fees of $50
  • Satoshi's vision was never for bitcoin to be a store of value
  • Appeals to Satoshi's authority and seems to speak for him several times

SOV (Store of Value) vs MOE (Medium of Exchange)

Steve creates a straw man. It is true that there are many bitcoiners that believe bitcoin is not a MOE. Some will say that it must first become a SOV and then as adoption grows it will be used as a MOE. There are also those that believe it is and can be both. I believe many stackers including me are in this camp. There are also those that do not care at all about the MOE use case. I believe he's creating a straw man with this argument. The reality is that in the US and the wealthy nations of the world MOE is not a huge problem. However, with fiat the fruits of our labor are a melting ice cube without bitcoin. So of course SOV is going to be a bigger demand. Steve likes to say he is for the market making decisions. Its interesting because it would appear that the market did make the choice. :)

Bitcoin Requires Large Companies

Steve argues that the small blockers have created a situation where big companies are required to use bitcoin as a MOE. I think its a rather ironic point to make seeing as the big blockers created a situation where it is not reasonable for plebs to be able to run their own nodes. As a user of bitcoin and someone that has done every aspect of bitcoin on the technical side bitcoin has a long way to go to be used by every person on the planet as a MOE. Its well on its way but there is a ways to go yet. That said, the reality is that the average person isn't going to care about any of these things. But the average person is only one consideration. Bitcoin if successful will attract businesses of all sizes. From what I have seen it seems to that the big businesses he seems to be talking about are the exchanges. I fail to see how bitcoin cash has addressed this "problem". Maybe I am just not understanding his point.
He may be referring to Lighting centralization and other L2s. If so, that is a valid concern but I disagree that it is more of a concern than node centralization. Being able to validate our own transactions is a very core feature for me and most of the hard core bitcoiners I respect.

Lightning

So he starts off by saying lightning doesn't work. That's funny because I literally use it every day and it works. Its not perfect. I don't think it is ready for mass adoption but I also don't see mass adoption in the short term as likely. He also states that lightning requires on-chain transactions. This is true but he doesn't really explain that it basically batches many small transactions therefore making it far more efficient. He falsely states that these channel opens cost $50. As a lightning node operator I have not experienced this level of fee for a channel open. If I were running it as business though this would be an issue.
Over and over again with technical discussions I see people make the mistake of not considering trade-offs. There are no real solutions, only trade-offs as Thomas Sowell once said. Bitcoin cash solved high on-chain fees by increasing the block size. This created other negative trade-offs. Its never as simple as people like it to be.

Satoshi Vision & Appeals to Authority

Satoshi's vision was never for bitcoin to be a store of value. It is interesting to me to hear people still appealing to Satoshi's after all these years. I mean, I get it. The appeal to authority angle works on many people. Honestly, I find it hard to believe that with the hard cap on supply that Satoshi didn't see bitcoin as being both a MOE and a SOV. It just seems odd with all the gold analogies. Now, it is clear to me that he didn't see bitcoin as only a SOV. But again, that's a straw man. Of course there are bitcoiners that see bitcoin that way but honestly that doesn't matter to me. The way people think about a thing can change over time. Once you create something and put it out in the world you quickly lose the control you thought you had over it. In the end this is why speculating about what Satoshi would say about x is a waste of time. As any software engineer will tell you as your work gets used you almost always find it being used in ways you couldn't have imagined.
I know many long time bitcoiners are probably tired of these guys and this debate. The reality is that there are new bitcoiners every day and the issues raised by small blockers aren't stupid. They have valid points. They just have a poor solution. I wasn't as into bitcoin during the block side wars but I did listen to a few debates on the subject and the small blockers made more sense to me. Go figure. I'm a software engineer. But also, I am an economics nerd and fascinated by market decisions.
Looking forward to the Livera response.
63 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 15h
I don't get how anyone can think big blocks solve scaling. Afaik, increasing the block size scales linearly so if you have 8x bigger blocks, you'll get 8x more throughput.
But we don't need 8x more throughput if we really want the whole world to use bitcoin. We need A LOT MORE.
What kind of demand are big blockers expecting? Or do they think they can always increase block size to match demand without causing any problems?
Maybe I should listen to the talk but knowing how stupid humans can be, I don't think I'll miss anything if I don't.
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Very good point. We need an exponential scaling solution not a linear one
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They didn't get into this on the podcast...
Its a good question you raise. I haven't heard a good answer to it. The closest they got to it was so many transactions per second.
What annoys me to no end is the total ignoring of tradeoffs. I rarely hear big blockers talk about the tradeoffs of the change. If you believe what they say we all must be idiots or worse. State agents...
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I just started listening to this episode. I like Steve, but none of what I've heard him say about this resonates with my experience of how people talk about bitcoin.
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Yeah, not really familiar with Steve but his points are full of straw men.
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I was familiar with him from his non-bitcoin work. He's a very thoughtful guy, but it seems like he would benefit from just talking to some actual bitcoiners.
I don't find any of these kinds of arguments compelling, even if they were true. Like you said, who cares what anyone intended or how we got here? It may be academically interesting, but we are we are and bitcoin is clearly still the best thing going.
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26 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford OP 15h
Exactly. These "Satoshi would have..." arguments just sound religious to me. Not rational. Not market based. And not technically sound.
In a religion where your deity is the source of truth it does matter what they "would do or say". For a software project it doesn't really. Bitcoin is not owned by anyone. No one has authority unless the node operators decide they do. He made no mention of the power of node operators to decide which version of bitcoin they will run.
He just comes off as ignorant to me. Not dumb or scammy.
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I know he was really into bitcoin prior to the Blocksize Wars. I feel like this is reflecting a psychological inability to process that loss. He may have been scammed with this version of events, but he's not trying to scam anyone.
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I know many long time bitcoiners are probably tired of these guys and this debate
That's the whole point. WE ARE TIRED OF THIS BCH BULLSHIT. And my answer to all these shitcoiners is simple:
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Yeah, I don't care about the shitcoiners. Just thinking no-coiners might be tricked by these tricksters.
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Its slowly dying but some of us newer bitcoiners need to take up the fight and knock down these stupid arguments.
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If we factor micro-transactions into the equation, like zapping here on SN, and we start seeing tens of millions of transactions per block, and block size scales, then nodes will explode in size limiting node operators to the largest datacenter operators in the world. This centralizes the network and cedes consensus to a few big well funded corporations. This is definitely not Satoshi's vision. Layer 2s are inevitable at some point. And if they are inevitable, then small blocks make sense. Bitcoin Core wins. Based on hash rate and energy use, it's not even close. BCH is dying a slow death. And yes...tired of this debate. The market has chosen. Let's move on.
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People also need to take into account other variables when thinking critically about the growth, adoption and scaling of technology, in general, not just about Bitcoin. The early internet was not “intended” to be what it has become to us all today, but it still went that direction nonetheless. We’re still very much in the early adopters phase of the bell curve of adoption for Bitcoin. Check out Geoffrey Moore’s “Crossing the Chasm” if you’re unfamiliar with the technology adoption cycle. Bitcoin may still yet become a MoE (or something else entirely) as we navigate the various adoption phases.
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100%. Great response.
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