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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @k00b 21 Nov \ parent \ on: Nostr Relays: What Gives? nostr
Protocols have many strengths, but they experience bystander effects, and as a protocol grows, its bystander effects are reinforced by investments in the status quo.
Certainly it is early and interesting, as you said.
As mentioned, I'm posing questions for the philosophically interested. I don't presume my voice counts for that much, but I figure that those with actual clout - investors or developers - reading, it might be worth the effort to step back and reflect on where the protocol is headed with respect to the perceived values and ideologies associated with it. In the name of truth seeking.
I do love Nostr, and I agree with your point about withholding judgement until the rubber hits the road, so to speak. There was, if you can believe it, a more vitriolic version of this post that got heavily pared down to the version you are reading. In truth, I'm in the process of learning to manage my expectations for whats still a wee burgeoning bairn. Hopefully others can relate to this.
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There was, if you can believe it, a more vitriolic version of this post that got heavily pared down to the version you are reading.
I can relate. It can be frustrating only seeing cope and hopium from people standing in the middle of incoming traffic. It's hard to tell if they believe what they're saying because they don't understand, it's some form of preference falsification in the hopes of joining the king's court, or there are other financial/social status conflicts making them (unconsciously even) lie and exaggerate.
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Agreed. None of the above is really ideal and I guess hence the frustration. Perhaps it's hard for people to wrap their minds around the concept of a protocol, especially if they weren't around when the internet was taking off.
As a side note, I didn't want to make this a size comparison between SN and Nostr "twitter" but since @k00b is reading, I'll just say that SN is by far more genuine and stimulating for me than any of the feeds on Nostr "twitter". Also, cf. @ek's recent discussion in meta, I find the rewards a nice incentive for new users. I get the nuance of users gaming it and so on, but I've seen nothing comparable on Nostr (have I missed something?). Mostly seems to be just the goodwill of the good people there, which is pretty admirable actually in its own right.
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I appreciate it. IMO it's less about Nostr vs SN and more about the problems Twitter-like platforms and Reddit-like platforms solve.
The best analogy I've come up: Twitter is like having a million friends to your house and giving them each their own iPad. Reddit is like a having a million friends over and there's a single TV and everyone has a remote.
Most people fail to appreciate how different that is and they think Twitter = people + algorithm + content = Reddit = Nostr = SN = any internet application on earth.
I get tons of "why isn't SN on nostr" concern trolling insinuating I'm too lazy/dumb/power hungry/greedy to create another centralized nostr client. It's perhaps too subtle for people that aren't actually concerned to appreciate, but the reality is: Reddit = people + algorithm + content + coordination.
Coordination without moderation/rulers is unsolved and that's what SN is largely trying to accomplish. I think internet scale coordination is THE 2nd killer use case for bitcoin, one that might save us from the Saylorification of Bitcoin (regulated, doomed to centralize SoV), and I'm less interested, perhaps to my deteriment, in what Bitcoin's Most Influential of 2024 want everyone exclusively using/working on.
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it's less about Nostr vs SN
I guess the tempting, although perhaps crude, comparison for me lay in them both being 'social layers' of Bitcoin, putting aside the nuances you've articulated.
internet scale coordination is THE 2nd killer use case for bitcoin
My basic understanding is, as a permission-less global unit of exchange, Bitcoin can and will coordinate all economic activity happening over the internet. I'd be interested in your take on this.
perhaps to my deteriment,
Nah, stick to the vision, mate. To me SN is the 'Town Hall' that Bitcoiners need, I think probably due to the coordination element you're referencing. The community here truly has expanded my consciousness and helped to broaden my understanding since I began taking my first baby steps down the proverbial rabbit hole. Many people here devoted to the truth and educating others, without the ego of Xitter. Though not perfect--as some like to point out more than others, there will always be retards and "ass-milkers" ready to take advantage of a good thing--but truly great.
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I guess the tempting, although perhaps crude, comparison for me lay in them both being 'social layers' of Bitcoin, putting aside the nuances you've articulated.
Fair. Actually, I think that's the way most people see it and why some people feel like they have to pick one.
It might be confirmation bias, but I find twitter-like social experiences poorly suited to achieving social consensus on any matter (let alone bitcoin). Social consensus on twitter-like sites seems to mostly be top-down - great for mantras, platitudes, promotions, and commands from high status or status seeking people.
I'd rather bitcoiners go back to the talk forum or delving than another twitter-like platform as the social layer.
To be clear, I like twitter-ish sites but I mostly use them for entertainment, worshiping very specific people, and leads on breaking news.
My basic understanding is, as a permission-less global unit of exchange, Bitcoin can and will coordinate all economic activity happening over the internet.
I'd agree. The main point I'm making is that bitcoin will allow us to coordinate in ways that weren't possible before. I think bitcoin will allow us to solve coordination problems on the internet that we've only solved IRL and solve coordination problems that only exist at the internet's scale.
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