pull down to refresh
286 sats \ 14 replies \ @0330830bf9 3 Oct 2022 \ on: Hi, this is BOLT.FUN AMA bitcoin
I have every Lightning wallet under the sun, funded and ready to go, yet I can't even vote on the website without a proprietary connector from Alby.
Project seems very biased towards a specific stack, so how can it be judged fairly when organizers exclude every lightning wallet but one?
Might be a good idea for something to hack on for the Legends of Lightning Tournament ;)
reply
The irony that this is a very biased take in itself.
The site is built using the new web-ln open standard: https://webln.dev. You can use it from any browser that supports web-ln. On mobile it's a bit trickier because it's so early, but I just used the site from the Blixt wallet in-app browser and it worked perfectly fine 🤷‍♂️
reply
No native device browsers support it, and installing a separate app from an app store to use a website is absurd. May as well have made the whole thing an app.
reply
I explained to you over and over again how WebLN can work with other APIs like the one that you prefer.
Things are early and need to be developed and everybody is invited to propose solutions and make things better.
But talk is cheap and it is easy to critizise what others do.
reply
It’s a tough one, at the moment it’s hard to get the interoperability we want as a web app if using all sorts of LN payments. Not to mention we are trying to implement Lightning into our web app without having to custody users’ funds.
One big hurdle we have is collecting pre-images upon successful payment. As you might have noticed, voting 🔥 in the app uses Lightning to send sats to the creator of stories/projects. But in order to increase the tally of votes, we need confirmation the payment went through (👍 0 > 👍 1) . One thing we’ve been pushing for is lnurl-verify, which would allow us to quickly check a payments success.
Thanks for the feedback though, we appreciate the frustration and it’s sometimes one we feel ourselves. You can use:
- Breez / Blixt in-wallet browser
- Any browser with webln integration (Alby extension installed)
That being said this is only required for in-app payments, you can still use the app, create a maker profile, write stories etc using any wallet with lnurl-auth support…
reply
It's not that tough, literally every wallet supports a QR code, particularly the ones that are fiat on-ramps like Strike and CashApp that are the source of much of the Bitcoin comes into the network.
The back-end could easily increment on payment completion to increase the vote tally, no rube-goldberg machines needed that exclude the wallets everyone already uses.
These horrible design decisions indicate the project has an agenda, not doing what's best for adoption.
reply
As long as we don't have universal APIs to validate payments backends do not have a chance to check if a payment was made.
-> the payment here happens directly between voter and maker.
For this we recently also proposed the lnurl-verify spec to be no longer dependent on validating the preimage (and thus webln) but still have it easy for users to simply use their lightning address.
I encourage you to propose solutions and get those solutions adopted. Talk is cheap and your negativity does not help anybody.
And as I said here: #77154 we also have shown how things can work with other backends.
so maybe better write code or come with some productive solutions. thx.
reply
The API is irrelevant, Lightning spec is usable on plenty of apps without this nonsense. StackerNews is a great example :)
BoltFun however decided to make a non-Lightning website, and that's sad.
Obviously new solutions should be encouraged and tried, but it's hostile design when they create a walled garden such has happened here- where otherwise fully equipped Lightning users have to deal with added friction.
On the incentives of creating solutions, which is the point of bringing this up in this context, why would anyone invest time into this hackathon if it's clearly hostile to solutions that would embarrass WebLN?
How could an alternative to WebLN be judged fairly when met with this kind of unhinged response to feedback?
reply
StackerNews is a custodial solution. I think the goal here is to trend to a non-custodial solution. It's not where it should be yet, but it can be worked on through WebLN.
reply
with all respect, but I guess you know that this is bullshit and nothing more than talking bad about others people's work.
bring a solution, do something productive. bolt.fun is also open source...for example write a few lines of code and make it better.
Talk is cheap.
Past participants had build all kinds of things and without webln.
bolt.fun also uses nostr for comments, but you don't have to use that also.
And if you don't like it, then maybe just build something better.
reply
This toxic response to honest discussion is beneath you Bumi, if this is your position you should probably recuse yourself as a judge.
You've demonstrated you have no capacity to honestly consider perspectives that aren't aligned with your vision for WebLN.
reply
As I said, bring a solution, people will like it. Then you also don't need to just complain.
You can easily write a few lines of code and make it work with your lightning.pub stuff.
Lightning will only excel if we all collaborate constructively, but that's up to you...I haven't seen much from you in this regards.
reply
I think Bumi is trying to explain some of the difficulties in building non-custodial web applications that use Lightning. I've never heard Bumi utter the words "That app sucks because it's not on the web." We all specialise in different areas, and we welcome this diversity it to our judging panel. There are many other judges that have the same weight as he does and I would think they will ALL evaluate your project on what you build.
You pointed out a shortcoming of our own platform, totally get it. Very valid concern and something we'll take onboard. Thanks for your opinion đź‘Ť
reply
We're just trying to have fun with lightning and see what's possible. Of course we're going to make mistakes, and we appreciate you helping give feedback, but pointing fingers for the sake of it is a waste of everyone's time. As Bumi said, please propose a constructive solution rather than just drumming up some negativity for the sake of it.
Want to open an issue? Go right ahead: https://github.com/peakshift/makers.bolt.fun
And yes, Stacker News is great - hence why we're here. We love these guys, but it's a custodial solution that they've implemented, and that's something we chose not to implement on our platform. So does that mean SN has an agenda against non-custodial solutions? Of course not, they've just built their product with how they see fit and also what's available to them at the time... and that's what we're doing too. It's not that complicated. I get your frustration, but talk of agendas is just total trolling at this point...
With regards to hacking at the tournament, you don't need to worry. Yes our first events were geared towards WebLN but that's because we needed to focus our events as we're a small team. The #LegendsOfLightning tournament isn't biased towards web applications, you can build on lightning, on-chain, even hardware or come up with a concept for educating people through a children's book... the possibilities are pretty endless. The only barriers that are up are bitcoin only, that's the only real rule...
Hope to see you there and please don't be discouraged by our previous web focus. We're all here to learn and have fun, so let's keep it in the spirit of the game đź‘Ť
E
reply