will fedi, liquid and cashu compete with each other for l2 crown? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

will fedi, liquid and cashu compete with each other for l2 crown?

510 sats \ 10 comments \ @stack_harder 2 Nov bitcoin

ok, preface, i know some people (Darth!) hate the idea of this type of layer two, and i think we're all aware of the main drawbacks, but nonetheless, since the 3 are all kind of doing something similar, will we will see one emerge as the dominant l2/side chain over time?

or will all 3 just coexist and have a place with their slight variations in use case?

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142 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 2 Nov

They aren't Layer-Two's, any implication that they are is an affinity scam... They are simple applications with niche use-cases.

Fedi/Mint - Is obfuscation for political entities that don't want to reveal who is the actual bitcoin custodian. It uses federated nomenclature despite the fact that Bitcoin cannot be federated, the purpose of which is med-large organizations can be custodians while hiding who is responsible by pretending that responsibility is distributed.

Liquid - Is Blockstream as custodian, but with an SDK that allows for naive/novice to wallet developers to pretend their projects are non-custodial by passing the blame to a bigger company with more legal and media resources to scam the regulator.

Cashu - Pure virtue-signaling retardation about privacy without substance, but is well-funded by NGO's and Neobanks that might extend their relevance if they're able to protocolize bank accounts.

They've shot themselves in the foot now by labeling themselves L2's, that opens the door for new fake L2 scams like Ark/VTXO's etc to compete on similar properties to Liquid, but without the network-effect for now.

123 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 2 Nov

All these cannot be L2. Maybe L3, but not even that. You should understand that L2 is only Lightning Network - The Bitcoin's Payment Network.

All the rest are something else. Yes they can be used with LN but are NOT competing with LN. They depend on LN in fact.

So please stop bullshiting around these so called "alternatives" that are NOT by far any alternative. You can use them as adjacent to LN if you want, but that doesn't mean you "fix something".

38 sats \ 0 replies \ @random_ 2 Nov

Agreed!

A fundamental characteristic of an actual L2 is the ability to unilaterally and trustlessly settle on the base layer.

Only lightning has this. The rest are tokens.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @stack_harder OP 2 Nov

ok, a semi L3, I'm just interested in how they're competing etc, i don't actually use any of them because I don't have a use case, i just dca and hodl, but like to know about various new things being developed

17 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 2 Nov

What you still do not WANT to understand is that all these tokens are not competing with BTC and LN, but are only trying to improve somehow the experience for the new poor users that cannot own a full decent UTXO.

Please read my use case guide about that https://darth-coin.github.io/wallets/bitcoin-adoption-using-ecash-en.html

All these tokens are not "the magic next thing" noobs should "invest" in... that is totally bullshit shitcoiner mentality.

ALWAYS REMEMBER MY WARNING MEME

There are many bad actors on the "dark side"... like Lightspark, Conbase, Tether etc.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 2 Nov

i didnt say they were competing with with btc, i was talking about them competing with each other

i also didn't say they were the next thing

i also don't invest in them

i was just asking how different they are and which one might become the main federated solution for people that don't mind that

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @kruw 2 Nov

These are banks, not second layers.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @poe7645 2 Nov

I have my fun with my nuts and ecash but I don't consider them second layers to bitcoin, or even competing with lighting. Just another custodial wallet/mint/bank issuing tokens integrated with lightning that I can use with nostr or for offline payments. Another tool with an intermediary before withdrawing to an actual self custodial lightning wallet/my node.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @RdioActiv 2 Nov

All three are literally banks with extra steps.

Like all the shitcoins that were created to make a "better" Bitcoin, this is nothing but another attempt to bypass Bitcoins calm and cautious development process.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 2 Nov

I think they are already competing. There will be more also.

I also think its too early to see which scaling tech takes off. If lightning gets a lot better we might not need any.