LightningPub / Shockwallet video demo setup 🎥 \ stacker news ~bitcoin

LightningPub / Shockwallet video demo setup 🎥

1555 sats \ 51 comments \ @DarthCoin 14 Sep bitcoin_beginners

zaps forwarded to @justin_shocknet (100%)

Here is a short video demo about how to quick and easy start a LN node with LightningPub and Shockwallet, then invite family and friends to use it (full "uncle Jim" scenario). Is a bit more technical, but don't be scared if you are new to this stuff. Worth paying attention and test it.

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179 sats \ 29 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 14 Sep

Bullish.

What happens when trying to receive before you have a channel? I’m assuming that 2222 sat invoice is not enough to cover the fees.

Does it do something similar to the auto liquidity feature in phoenixd?

38 sats \ 28 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14 Sep

It says clearly at min 3 - "we boostrap directly from LSP channels...". But you can also manage manually the channels as you like. And no, this is not like phoenixd autoliquidity. Why people still do not make the difference between LN implementations Eclair and LND, LDK, CLN ?

38 sats \ 27 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 14 Sep

Because people are still learning my guy. What does “bootstrap directly from LSP channels” mean? 😆

17 sats \ 26 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14 Sep

It means opening on the fly channels from those LSP (liquidity service providers), same is doing Alby Hub, Zeus, Blixt, Bitkit. The only downsize of these on-the-fly channels is that people are opening the first channels with small amounts, it means will be really small channels, with not suficient liquidity to be reused. Some kind of what was doing Phoenix v.1 and is costly for the user.

As per 1st channel opening is better to use a larger amount. Read more here #679242

42 sats \ 25 replies \ @justin_shocknet fwd 14 Sep

Actually its probably more like Phoenix than not, since in any scenario payments that are too small to be resolved on chain are inherently trusted. In both our case and Phoenix's case, they queue until a channel open is afforded.

The difference is we outsource the LSP role and you can use literally any other Pub instead of us by piping in their Pub nprofile. This is the gateway to decentralizing the LSP's and reducing costs 80% through channel batching.

0 sats \ 21 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 15 Sep

Actually its probably more like Phoenix than not, since in any scenario payments that are too small to be resolved on chain are inherently trusted. In both our case and Phoenix's case, they queue until a channel open is afforded.

When you say queue, were you referring to the sats essentially being locked (i.e. unable to be sent out after receiving) until a channel is opened?

I haven’t used phoenixd yet but I assume that’s how it works with them too? This also seems similar to what Alby Hub is doing when custodial accounts are converted. I think they refer to the sats as “hosted balance”.

21 sats \ 20 replies \ @justin_shocknet fwd 15 Sep

They're not locked atomically but yes its similar in that its a hosted balance, what you're seeing there though in the screenshot is just the fee reserve for routing out payments... For example if you had a balance of 1000 sats it would still only hold 100 sats, if you had 20k sats it'd hold ~1%, 100 sats or 1% whichever is bigger.

17 sats \ 19 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 15 Sep

Ah that makes sense. I usually test with small amounts. Turns out this was right at the threshold. 😄

So a couple more questions:

Those 100 sats were received via the PWA. I decided to give the TestFlight a try so I downloaded that and added the nprofile. Was expecting to see the same 100 sats but didn’t. Am I missing something?
Also, when I initially add my nprofile, it’s labeled as “relay.lightning.pub”

But when I come back later, it just says “wallet”.

Is this a bug or is it the same source? I was expecting to be able to verify by clicking on the edit icon and seeing the nprofile but it comes up blank.

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 14 Sep

Actually its probably more like Phoenix than not, since in any scenario payments that are too small to be resolved on chain are inherently trusted. In both our case and Phoenix's case, they queue until a channel open is afforded.

Thanks Justin. This is what I wanted to know. So during this trusted phase, I technically don’t have a channel.

Now my questions are:

Are there higher fees during this phase or do I just accumulate sats until a channel is afforded? In other words, is it a lump sum or do I pay for the channel over time?
Do I get to decide the threshold when that channel should be opened?

The difference is we outsource the LSP role and you can use literally any other Pub instead of us by piping in their Pub nprofile. This is the gateway to decentralizing the LSP's and reducing costs 80% through channel batching.

Let me see if I understand this. Channel batching occurs when multiple users (e.g. the ones that are connected to Uncle Jim’s node) are using my nprofile so we can all essentially share the channel-related costs. Is that right?

105 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet fwd 14 Sep

Sats just accumulate as a fee credit, this is just the naive default and triggers when the opening cost is <1% the size of the channel. Pub fetches a quote on every balance update and then executes the open so all the logic is completely self-hosted.

Threshold is adjustable in the .env file on the Pub node, but the best way is really just open a channel any time you want via cli since its just LND underneath... we don't have creation UI in the dashboard yet, but should very soon (read-only is already there)

Channel batching

I think you're describing node-sharing, whereas channel batching is a batch open of channels on-chain to multiple nodes at once.

Scenario: You run a Pub, but have no channels, your only balance is trusted at another Pub. Either your or their Pub could advertise/solicit a batch open position, and then apply your balance towards that.

Since we already have the connections and node identity over Nostr, we'd use that for additional coordination... These batch opens might even leverage the broader Nostr web-of-trust, and the incentive exists because batches reach almost 80% savings on opening costs with just a handful of participants

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 14 Sep

Channel batching

I think you're describing node-sharing, whereas channel batching is a batch open of channels on-chain to multiple nodes at once.

Scenario: You run a Pub, but have no channels, your only balance is trusted at another Pub. Either your or their Pub could advertise/solicit a batch open position, and then apply your balance towards that.

Since we already have the connections and node identity over Nostr, we'd use that for additional coordination... These batch opens might even leverage the broader Nostr web-of-trust, and the incentive exists because batches reach almost 80% savings on opening costs with just a handful of participants

This sounds really cool. I’m not a Lightning pro so I wouldn’t know, but it sounds like channel batching has been around for a while. The only difference now is that there’s coordination. So instead of my opening 10 channels with an LSP to save on costs, it’ll be up to 10 different participants each opening a channel.

Thanks for taking the time to explain all of this btw. Def will pass on the knowledge.

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27 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 14 Sep

This is fantastic. I am definitely going to try it.

79 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheMorningStar 14 Sep

Thank you sir for the video guide. I'm a learner and big fan of your guides here. Saving this video foe reference.

38 sats \ 6 replies \ @Coinsreporter 14 Sep

Thanks 🙏 This is really cool. Not very technical as you said. I've just bookmarked it for now. I think we can't implement on mobile, right?

27 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14 Sep

the node runs on a desktop, but shockwallet is designed to be used on mobile, even as PWA (no need to install app).

28 sats \ 4 replies \ @Coinsreporter 14 Sep

Thanks 🙏 That's what I meant. I don't have desktop but gonna buy one as early as I can. Does running your own node earn you sats as well?

37 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14 Sep

Does running your own node earn you sats as well?

Did you read ALL my guides? Especially these:

More here: https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/nodes.html

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @Coinsreporter 14 Sep

Thanks again! The two above I've read earlier. The third one is also quite intriguing. I've clicked and gone through them a little bit right now as well. I think, it'll be better I read them all deeply when I have the setup. I also feel like Might not be the right person to run my own node, I'm not very technical. Let's see, I'll only put my hands on it when I can understand them fully.

37 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 14 Sep

I also feel like Might not be the right person to run my own node

Look I will explain you something.

You do not have to be very technical to run a LN node. Yes, in the early years it was quite crazy running a LN node, software wasn't so stable, quite complicated command line setup and debug, not so many solutions.

I've tested almost ALL LN solutions, nodes, wallets, apps etc from the beginning. Nowadays we have quite some good easy apps that makes your life easier. Yes are still complicated and sophisticated LN nodes, but you don't have to go down the rabbit hole with those.

That's why I start posting on SN guides, solutions, demos etc and stay here all days explaining to newbies how they should do it. Yes many consider me crazy but in the end they will remember my words. When Darth is talking about something, it means it is important.

Bitcoin knowledge is power.

59 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 14 Sep

Thank for you detailed response. When I set it up, I'm sure, I'm gonna need help. And who can be better than you? I mark your every word, so I'll bother you very soon. If it's easy, I'm gonna do it.

117 sats \ 3 replies \ @Car 14 Sep

🎧 boom #420786

168 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 14 Sep

I enjoyed that talk with Justin. Very few podcasters dare to invite him to talk. In fact I think you were the only one.

17 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB 14 Sep

Yeah I wonder that is. I met Justin at bitcoin 2024 super humble guy.

150 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 14 Sep

Its because he is deeply passionate about what he is building. He also questions the "narrative." Most podcasters stay in their small bubble for validation or chasing numbers. I invite people on that I want to learn and get answers from, I love being the dumbest person in the room. 😝

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 14 Sep

Damn this is way easier than LN bits

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @mf 14 Sep

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satoshi__Nakamoto 14 Sep

Well done Post on stacker on when app will lunch

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rsync25 14 Sep

Awesome!

17 sats \ 3 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 15 Sep

Hey @justin_shocknet I’m getting a “can't retrieve wallet status” issue while running the install script.

After running systemctl, I saw LND wasn’t running so I started it and ran the script again. Same issue.

Know of anything else I can try?

17 sats \ 2 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 15 Sep

So the reason LND didn’t start the first time was because Alby Hub was running. I just deleted everything, started over, and now I’ve got my nprofile. 🫡

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet fwd 15 Sep

Awesome, it had probably started but just couldn't find the unlock event in the service log...

We take security with this seriously so its good not to run it alongside another system, we have a watchdog service that will prevent sends if it detects a discrepancy.. so using Alby Hub and Pub at the same time would shut down the Pub effectively once it realized sats moved out without knowing why.

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 15 Sep

Good to know. In my case, I think it was just cause Alby Hub was also using port 8080 since I was testing it with a Cashu backend. But yeah, def don’t have two systems using LND at the same time.