162 sats \ 40 replies \ @grayruby 13 Sep \ on: Stacker Saloon
Please consider downzapping this comment from this reward system abuser.
#683436
It's definitely clear now.
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Why do you think they're an abuser?
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Abuser, gaming the system, call it what you will. Three days in a row they have been in the top 5 earning thousands of sats in rewards just by zapping content early. They had no posts and comments two days ago and around 400 sats zapped and generated 4800 in rewards (give or take). Yesterday they had one comment (which was directed at Undisciplined for calling them out and posted one music video that was not a popular post). They did zap over 2k sats yesterday in order to earn over 5k rewards and today have made the one comment on fun fact friday and zapped around 700 sats and are currently in position to earn over 5k sats. I don't consider this value additive behavior.
People may disagree with me and that's fine. Ideally the reward system and community should have an immune response to those trying to take advantage of it and the perpetrators should not have long term success. We will see if that's the case.
I downzapped their comment 1k sats yesterday and that had no effect. Which is understandable as I am only one stacker but I say let the stackers decide if they want to vote with their sats in favour or against this behaviour.
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Zapping early is value added though else these things people later agree are good would never be seen. Careful zapping is expensive even if the effort isn't visible. It's the rarest behavior stackers engage in.
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After reading the comments yesterday, it's clear that to replicate this performance, you need to zap big the posts that will become top posts. But is that really the answer? I believe it's incredibly challenging, as it demands an intimate knowledge of the stackers' preferences.
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That's not gonna work. Check out my last comment.
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Great we should all aim to do nothing but try to zap content that will become top posts early.
I don’t want to spend my time doing that but if that’s what is the most valuable behaviour should we not all be trying to create the most value.
Nice knowing you SN when 75% of the content goes away so we can all try to game rewards.
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Nah, we shouldn't all be doing this. I estimate that only 2 or 3 stackers are capable of it. The biggest concern is when it becomes a recurring pattern, as this can create the impression that the top posts are manufactured.
They are clearly only zapping high value stackers content that is likely to end up as top posts as a strategy to earn sats. Sorry, I don't agree that is value added. That is gaming the system but if you are good with it then so be it. I don't really care about earning sats, pretty much every sat I have ever earned on SN has gone back into the community but personally I would rather see the largest pools of daily rewards sats go to stackers who are actually participating in the daily discourse on SN not judiciously zapping.
Your site though so if you think someone zapping top stackers content early so they can earn thousands of sats in rewards and doing nothing else on site adds more value that people who are posting, commenting, zapping, getting zapped, that's your prerogative but I think most stackers would disagree.
That's my position. I don't want to debate it further. You incentivize what you want on your site.
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I didn't mean to sound like I was debating. I was trying to share more context.
They are clearly only zapping high value stackers content that is likely to end up as top posts as a strategy to earn sats.
fwiw I looked at what they are doing and that's not what they are doing.
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Ok so then you are suggesting that we should all be merely trying to replicate their behaviour as that behaviour is more highly valued than creating content, commenting and engaging with others.
Zapping and getting zapped. I realize you have a difficult problem creating a mechanism to avoid spam and sats farming and trying to make it costly for those that try. Maybe the system isn’t always perfect and there will be anomalies but quite honestly the implication that they deserve their position because they are creating more value than some of the amazing stackers that are below them in the rewards ranks is mildly offensive to me.
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I'm not trying to make a judgement about who is valuable and who isn't - especially to me. I was sharing that our ranking algorithm requires brave souls zapping great, widely appealing, content early, which very very very few people do, and so our reward algorithm compensates for that.
I was trying to share the assumptions made when the algorithm was designed. I'm sorry it seems unfair. I want it to be fair.
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I understand the problem you tried to solve in creating a value based system.
And I understand your point that for good content to be elevated it needs people willing to read it and zap it early.
I just find it odd that the system so heavily values early zapping alone as a metric that someone can do this.
I don’t think 100 stackers trying to do what they are doing would be good for SN.
Yes there is a cost to trying to do what they are doing but after it works once they are playing with house money because they zapped 400 sats and got 4800 in rewards. That gives them a lot of runway and every day they are in a net profit it further encourages the behaviour.
Sorry to interfere
But it does feel bad when someone without making any contribution by posting or commenting becomes the top stacker. If by only zapping we can be in top 10 stackers that too regularly, which makes the behaviour suspicious.
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I agree.
Downzapping seems to be not working upon him!
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Not related to this debate, but came to my mind something and wanted to ask you about.
If I zap a post, let's say I am the 1st one, with 100 sats. I also comment first.
Then after a while, after I wait until more are coming to comment and zap, I zap again same post let's say 1000 sats.
Then after a while again 2000 sats.
Is this affecting the algo for the OP and for me ?
I am just curious how this plays out. You know I am not interested in gainz...