"Perhaps one of the most fascinating abilities of the mammalian brain, is that it can generate flexible behavior that is generalized across contexts.
For example, lets say you spent a few weeks learning how to make just the perfect lasagna. You learn that skill in your own kitchen where you are familiar with the location of all the utensils ingredients and appliances as well as the layout of the kitchen itself.
Finally you get invited to your friends house to cook your famous lasagna. Even though you never used their kitchen before, you are still able to navigate and cook efficiently, but how is this possible? Because if you think about it, you have never been in that particular situation. So this must be a totally new problem right?
Well, the answer lies in the ability of your brain to generalize. Your able to kind of strip away the particular sensory contexts of your kitchen and extract the abstract notion of lasagna cooking procedure. At the same time you know the general principles of how kitchens work so one quick glance at the location of the oven and the utensils is enough to relate that particular layout to your inner model of kitchens. This generalization requires information about the world to be organized into a multi-purpose coherent framework known as a cognitive map."
However, what if the generalizations were misappropriately applied? What if you tried to cook lasagna at a barbeque?

Your Cognitive Map of Federated and Decentralized Systems is Messed Up

Okay so I need to apologize for that attention getter. I was going to do a shorter one about how your brain uses association to be a faster database than any computerized database that exists today, but I guess the one I chose to use is actually more relevant.
With that out of the way though, lets dive into what a federated system is and what in the world do we even mean when we say something is decentralized?
"Bitcoin is a consensus network that enables a new payment system and a completely digital money. It is the first decentralized peer-to-peer payment network that is powered by its users with no central authority or middlemen." https://bitcoin.org/en/faq
While decentralized and peer to peer. Is everything decentralized also peer to peer? If we generalize as we tend to do, we might think that is the case based on the information we have been presented. Bitcoin is decentralized and that means it doesn't rely on middlemen, right?
This Illustration from “On Distributed Communication Networks” is often used by cryptocurrency proponents who declare that decentralization is a spectrum and therefore Eth is decentralized. So our cognitive map becomes even more dysfunctional. We've learned that Bitcoin is a kitchen and we arrive at the Eth BBQ and wonder why we struggle to make Lasagna.
In this illustration, you can clearly see that the decentralized graph does indeed have middlemen.
Perhaps then, Bitcoiners are the problem. We shouldn't say Bitcoin is decentralized and we should rather be saying Bitcoin is distributed right? Well, actually, lots of Bitcoiners do trust middlemen. Lots of Bitcoiners don't run their own node and so for them they trust someone else is running Bitcoin and not BCash. So in that sense decentralized is pretty accurate right?
However, still the ability to become self sovereign and unruggable and stay in the consensus that you desire is still there. Whatever we call that it is very different from Eth. It is peer to peer and socially constructed. The technical pieces are a second layer with the social being the first layer. Evidence of this can be found in Bitcoin's downtime. The technology behind Bitcoin at one point said there are 184,467,440,737.09551616 bitcoin (In addition to what Bitcoin was already mined) Value Overflow Incident. This did not resolve well on the social layer and so the technology changed to fit the social consensus that there are in fact only 21 million Bitcoin.
This self sovereignty has become part of the cognitive map for what decentralized means. So the etymology of the word decentralized has changed.

What is a Federation Anyway?

The United States is a federation of states. So we can immediately see that we wouldn't call the United States decentralized and especially we wouldn't say "The United States is decentralized just like Bitcoin" lol.
"The Fediverse" refers to a social network of which mastodon is part of.
Look at that graph. Makes you think the fediverse is decentralized right? Did you know that first of all fediverse has accounts. See, fediverse just propagates posts to other websites, but the users still have to create accounts on one of the websites in the fediverse. When the website that your account belongs to bans your account, your ID in the entire fediverse also goes away and you have to restart.
Fedi-mint advocates were right to call themselves federated rather than decentralized. Imagine if we called a fedi-mint a "Decentralized Autonomous Organizational Mint" DAO-Mint or something similar. Have we thought through what has the same structure as a fedi-mint, but calls itself decentralized? Well first of all a fedi-mint is literally a multi-sig between a bunch of trusted people and you are not one of the multi-sig signers. So Liquid is not decentralized nor does it claim to be in fact Liquid refers to itself as a federation, but DAOs are federations.
I hope that by now we're noticing a common trend.

Sporadic add in thoughts

Nostr is also not considered decentralized. It isn't peer to peer. It relies on server client architecture, but you can switch between websites at will and your ID is more so connected to your keys than any given server.
Its kind of like users who trust a server to store and verify the blockchain for them. The websites they connect to all propagate data, but the users still need to connect to the websites.
So Bitcoin is decentralized, but you can still use it in ways that are not decentralized. Is Bitcoin decentralized for you specifically? As in, do you use Bitcoin in a decentralized way?

Conclusion aka TLDR

So the difference between something federated and something decentralized comes down to the fact that something that is federated has a federation that votes and makes a decision that people are subjected to. Whereas something decentralized inherently means no one is subject to anyone else its all just a bunch of agreements between individuals that amalgamate into one coherent system.
Networking architecture terminology plays a part, but is overall not very good for understanding how and why Bitcoin is decentralized. Social mechanisms are a lot better for understanding how Bitcoin is decentralized. How people come to socially agree on certain constructs like what words mean or what we're going to call money or what family actually is (blood or relationship based family) all of that has done a lot more for understanding Bitcoin decentralization than any concept that came from computer science. Blockchains can be subverted into centralized or federated things.
With Nostr, we did a pretty good job at kicking off the web3 narrative. Nostr is a modern web 1.0 protocol. Can we come together and correct the misunderstanding of things getting called decentralized that clearly aren't? This is my contribution to that effort as of today.
300 sats \ 4 replies \ @k00b 15 Aug
One of my fears if we don't scale the UTXO model is bitcoin becomes a very large federation. It's a far flung fear maybe, but I don't see why anyone would build software that relies on self-sovereign usage when the market is inevitably constrained which creates a custodial feedback loop.
reply
I've been thinking too about how multi-party channels should have a miner fee fund that some of the routing fees go to.
So k00b, I haven't posted in a while because I am extremely busy with studying to advance my career and other money related moves to put myself in a financially strategic position.
When at least the majority of that dust has settled I am trying to read through the various non-soft fork related multi-party channels and I want to write an article that gives the TLDR on the trade-offs of each of them compared to the proposals that do require a softfork. Then if I see more excitement for one of them over the others, maybe I'll attempt to write an implementation spec for it (and then invite the real engineers to shred everything I've written lol)
Just an update about where my head is at and things.
reply
300 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 15 Aug
I'd love to see a working multi-party channel implementation. I feel like I've seen at least three whitepapers with various constructions but all of them required covenant soft-forks iirc. Maybe BitVM fixes them without covenants.
reply
The paper I started reading was using timouts and every LN transaction was actually creating a valid Bitcoin transaction with a shorter timeout with the theory being that the shortest timeout transaction would be mined on-chain before any of the older states.
There's also a paper on multi-party channels that use PTLCs instead of the current HTLCs (haven't read that paper yet so I can't tell you what's special about PTLCs that make that paper possible)
reply
300 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 15 Aug
The PTLC one sounds vaguely familiar. I think it had to make a ton of tradeoffs to limit an intractable number of pre-signed txs.
The paper I started reading was using timouts and every LN transaction was actually creating a valid Bitcoin transaction with a shorter timeout with the theory being that the shortest timeout transaction would be mined on-chain before any of the older states.
Oh interesting. I hadn't thought about doing more with time-iterated games. Time is one of few trust-minimized levers we have for this stuff though.
reply
300 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 15 Aug
However, still the ability to become self sovereign and unruggable and stay in the consensus that you desire is still there.
Nostr is also not considered decentralized. It isn't peer to peer. It relies on server client architecture, but you can switch between websites at will and your ID is more so connected to your keys than any given server.
By these two sentences, would it be fair to say two properties of a decentralized systems are capacity for unruggable use, and at least where the system isn't stateless, something approaching consensus?
reply
where the system isn't stateless, something approaching consensus?
Where a system isn't stateless if I pack that back up it would look like "Where a system is stateful" right? Yeah a stateful system needs a consensus that can break apart. So if there is a disagreement, the people who disagree can together continue the state where they think it should be. Because if it isn't like that and you can't continue state from a point where you disagree then that means that the minority is subject to the majority which is democracy which is not self sovereignty.
Social constructs are not decided by democratic vote right? so. I really hold onto social construct dynamics a lot with this lol.
reply
10 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 15 Aug
I think that’s fair. I mean I agree with you. My mind wants a checklist is all.
  • consensus at the level you require (if it’s stateful)
  • your ability to participate (at the level of consensus you require) can’t be trivially taken from you
reply
Switzerland is a federation. CH means Confederation of Helvetica
reply
Helvetic Confederation or Confoederatio Helvetica (Latin)
reply
Fedi-mint advocates were right to call themselves federated
No, they're just scamming
Well first of all a fedi-mint is literally a multi-sig
No, it literally isn't, a single entity can still rug you and the fedi "guardians" part is for finger pointing and obfuscation vs. knowing who you trust in a single-point custodian
reply
Interesting claim. I think you may be thinking of cashu which is not a fedi-mint project, but go ahead please substantiate your claim.
I stopped reading into it with its initial pitch tbh because it promises to not be a self sovereign solution.
reply
What is this
reply
"Perhaps one of the most fascinating abilities of the mammalian brain, is that it can generate flexible behavior that is generalized across contexts
Yes, it is. It makes learning easy for us.
reply
Wow! So much learning in the article! I need to read it again. May be need to re-read it many times! Just bookmarked it! Thanks @nerd2ninja
reply
stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.