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21 sats \ 5 replies \ @BallLightning 2 Aug \ parent \ on: You probably don't need a hardware wallet bitcoin
"I don't give a fuck."
I kind of do and that's why I am telling people here that relying on software wallets is not sufficient.
How do you know what is "sufficient" for someone else?
I'd prefer that people learn how to keep a secret the old fashioned way (without relying on expensive hardware).
How did people keep secrets for thousands of years before the transistor was even invented? My point is that its not strictly necessary to use hardware.
Elon Musk likes to use the term "Idiot Index" to describe hardware/materials that cost substantially more than the raw materials that comprise them. Most hardware wallets sell for 60-90% margins. Very high idiot index.
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Running a software wallet on a mainstream operating system is a security risk.
"How did people keep secrets for thousands of years before the transistor was even invented? My point is that its not strictly necessary to use hardware."
WTF, man? What kind of analogy is this? Compromising a mainstream computer is not difficult (1) and happens all the time (2) and can be done and has been done en masse.
Also keep in mind that the current technology is way to complex for people to "learn to keep a secret". That's why a dedicated device (with proper user interface of course) is needed for proper security.
Also I think you are missing some very important thing here. It is entirely feasible that the following happens: 1. people store their money in software wallets, 2. for years nothing happens until bitcoin has very widespread adoption 3. somebody creates a malware using some OS exploit that steals money from many people's software wallets simultaneously.
So I would advice more people to use hardware wallets if possible.
And since "you don't give a fuck" I am not sure you really thought about the danger that this may pose.
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You're really good at pretending I said things that I never said...
I suggest you read this to understand what I'm actually advocating for: #569901
Running a software wallet on a mainstream operating system is a security risk.
I didn't say anyone should use software wallets on a "mainstream operating system". I'm just trying to make the point that it's probably fine to NOT use a hardware wallet (assuming you take the necessary precautions and don't rely on a secure element to protect your secrets while you sign transactions on your virus-infested windows PC)
Compromising a mainstream computer is not difficult and happens all the time
Then go ahead and hack me :)
What about a computer running FOSS software that was PGP-verified, has no internet connection, and runs completely in memory with no disk access? It's at least a bit HARDER to compromise that computer, right?
- people store their money in software wallets,
People do this. But I'm not suggesting it. Store your secrets in cold wallets "offline" like our ancestors used to keep secrets -- ciphered messages on paper, or bars of gold stashed away (a.k.a. steel plates)
I recognize that using a HWW offers some security features that you can't get anywhere else. But owning a HWW can also bring unwanted attention (like the Ledger leak). For how I use bitcoin, those extra features offered by HWW aren't compelling enough for me to buy one.
I'd argue that very few people actually NEED a HWW and that's why HWW companies spend so much on advertising (propaganda). If their product was actually necessary, it would cost 1/4 the price and they wouldn't have to advertise so much.
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I have the feeling that you just like to argue. I have already said want i need to say. The only thing that I will add is that it is entirely unrealistic to expect normal people to use PGP signed FOSS software. Their functionality and UX is way below paid software. And I have met way too many arrogant linux users. I still remember back in the day asking "how do I make 3D acceleration work on my radeon GPU" and linux guys were condescendingly answering "You don't need that". Yeah, good luck with that attitude.
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If only every bitcoin podcast took 2-3 mins to explain how to PGP verify software (and other useful skills) instead of shilling "their favorite" hardware wallet and spreading fear that makes normal people think they are incapable of keeping a secret.
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