I no longer really need a HWW since my funds are either

a) onchain in a 2of3 multisig as a vault b) in a lightning channel for spending

A HWW made sense when I was still regularly spending from a singlesig. Now I simply receive via lightning and when I have too much on lightning, I use a watch-only wallet to send the excess onchain.

I'd still recommend a HWW for beginners though.

Companies that advertise (period) tend to sell inferior, unnecessary, and/or "luxury" products.

Instead of paying to hijack people's attention, companies that advertise could have invested in making the product better or cheaper.

People love to share things that are great value. Word-of-mouth is the most powerful marketing channel and it comes naturally if your product is actually a good value.

After buying a mk4, I realized it is a lot of overhead for my need. NFC usage is cumbersome, because you need to power the thing... the Q is better with embedded batteries.

UX is also horrible: everytime I use it, a lot of mental overhead involved just trying to remember my setup and how to use the thing/avoid any mistakes.

There are way too much functions cramped in these deeply nested menus and the terminal like interface is not helping. Sure it feels cypherpunk, but that's about it.

SeedSigner is a lot simpler IMHO to use.

How do you securely pre-sign transactions without one?

This is so retarded and boils down to “if you don’t have a lot of bitcoin, don’t buy a hww”.

Then at the end says “There are much cheaper, easier and more secure solutions.”

Without providing any other examples of cheaper more secure solutions. Why? Because if he named what he thought was more secure, he’d be laughed out of the room.

Sorry you wasted so much time and spent more money on hww’s than bitcoin. You’re still dead wrong.

Yeah I've thought this too - all the wallet manufacturers are huge advertisers, on all the podcasts.

But I prefer and trust SeedSigner. https://seedsigner.com/

I hardly think $200 bucks for the average person with a stack of 5x or more than that is a real grudge purchase versus setting up a stand alone device themselves, let the market do its thing, not saying HWW companies are saints, but lesser evil for most

You can buy a trezor one in 69$ these days, sometime for less, if you want to keep the envelop for the keys, that's alright too, the trezor is only if you need to access it keep the cold storage away from the internet.

Yes you roll a very secure setup without a hww but the point of these devices is that they protect people who don't know how to do that. Normies are not going to use airgapped computers lol.

Does not everyone spread their assets across diverse solutions and platforms? Not doing so would be weird and risky...

Yes, I can remember my keys in my head!

I can't search it now but there was a post here on SN that told us about DIY a pendrive into a HW.

I'm not technical about bitcoin, but consider myself tech savvy. My take is: in any setting you ALWAYS should have backups, so, I'm not seeing HWW as the security panacea because even if it's virtually impossible to exfiltrate data from the devices, your seed/words/etc should also be in a different medium, which is not likely to be more secure. You know, the whole setup security is as secure as the weakest link and that... That being said, I do think they're amazing devices and the use cases I see are a. convenient secure signing (though on-chain txs will likely become less frequent); b. secure seed generation, with considerations. My take is that a 1 key (12 words) + passphrase, backed up in different locations with redundancy is as secure as you probably need without risking losing funds due to overengineering the crap out of your wallets. I dunno, just random thougts, I hear opinions

All you need is coinbase and paper wallets. How many of us are actually transacting with bitcoin all the time? Most of us buy and hold, right?

You, as a long time tinkering bitcoiner, might not need a hardware wallet but most with a significant amount of bitcoin will be much safer with a hardware wallet than without one.

I think its OK for beginners to get a cheap HWW like a jade. Later if they become more interested they can move onto more complex setups without a HWW.

Probably? what hardware wallet satoshi was using? lol

It's simple, it's safe, and it's good in what it does (keeping the seed and keys secret); I sleep better at night with one, and thus I'm absolutely for having one, especially if the holder isn't as technically versed as some people on here, which just happens to be the VAST majority of holders.

I think you're making too much of this.