Would your life improve if we banned all fossil fuels? \ stacker news ~econ

Would your life improve if we banned all fossil fuels?

179 sats \ 16 comments \ @Bell_curve 28 Jun econ

zaps forwarded to @k00b (10%)

Everything is electric No natural gas

We must rely only on wind solar nuclear

My neighbor is a material scientist for one of the big oil companies (his job is to explore alternative energy sources).

He has a good way of looking at it: You must simply compute "joules per retail dollar of stored energy". Doing this calculation you will find that petroleum is still the most energy dense fuel source - and most importantly that energy is in a "pre-stored" state. Solar / wind are all great in theory but to get to Apple-Apple comparison, you have to store that energy (cue bitcoin miners using trapped energy here).

Nature has done the work of 'storing' the energy in petroleum for us. We didn't need to expend additional energy (and carbon output) to mine hundreds of tons of lithium to make batteries.

Until the next breakthroughs arrive, this simple fact of "retail dollar per stored joule" will continue to be how the market operates.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bell_curve OP 28 Jun

Bookmarked

Material scientist? I wonder if he knows a lot about gravity batteries

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @freetx 28 Jun

yeah, he's mentioned a few different physical batteries they've looked at: Gravity batteries, winding big springs, etc.

I think he thinks the most efficient is some type of thermal battery (ie. heat pumps) using molten salt. Basically you directly use solar/wind electricity to melt salts that are stored in well insulated under-ground containers. Then later you use heat to boil water to turn turbines.

Obviously, like everyone else, he thinks that once some type of highly dense solid state battery arrives, that will be game-changing moment.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve OP 28 Jun

Once dense solid state arrives or if ?

Solid-state batteries with ultra-high energy density are emerging as a promising solution for the future of energy storage. Recent breakthroughs have enabled the development of solid-state battery cells with record-breaking energy densities:

Chinese startup Talent New Energy has unveiled an automotive-grade all-solid-state lithium battery prototype with a single cell capacity of 120 Ah and an energy density of 720 Wh/kg[3][5]. This is twice the energy density of Nio's semi-solid-state battery cells.
If mass-produced, Talent's solid-state battery could enable electric vehicles to achieve a range of around 2,000 km on a single charge[3].
The potential gains in energy density from solid-state batteries come from enabling the use of pure lithium metal anodes, which have a much higher specific capacity compared to graphite anodes in conventional lithium-ion batteries[4].

However, challenges remain in commercializing solid-state batteries, such as:

Achieving stable interfaces between the solid electrolyte and electrodes to prevent capacity fade[1][4]
Improving ionic conductivity of solid electrolytes, especially at lower temperatures[2]
Reducing manufacturing costs of this innovative technology[2]

With continued research and development, solid-state batteries with ultra-high energy density could revolutionize electric mobility by enabling much longer driving ranges with lighter, more compact battery packs[1][3][5].

Sources [1] Solid-State Batteries: The Future of Energy Storage - LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/solid-state-batteries-future-energy-storage-ricky-luo [2] Solid-state batteries: how they work https://www.flashbattery.tech/en/how-solid-state-batteries-work/ [3] Solid-state battery startup Talent New Energy unveils cell with ultra ... https://cnevpost.com/2024/04/03/talent-unveils-battery-cell-ultra-high-energy-density/ [4] Toward batteries that pack twice as much energy per pound https://news.mit.edu/2022/solid-state-batteries-interface-stability-0308 [5] Solid-state battery cell sets records, can offer over 1,300 mile range https://electrek.co/2024/04/03/new-solid-state-battery-cell-claims-industry-records-1300-mile-range/

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @freetx 28 Jun

John Goodenough was one of the pioneers...he was based at University at Austin, TX. (died in 2023). One of the theories of why Elon was so eager to relocate to TX also involved him being able to be close to Goodenough research team....

Goodenough had an impressive track record, he won Noble prize for inventing Lithium-ion battery. He also basically invented RAM at MIT.

We shall see if any of this pans out commercially...

28 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve OP 28 Jun

My friends in the battery world have said the challenge or obstacle is the anode: graphite, silicon or lithium

Goodenough served in world war 2, greatest generation

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b fwd 28 Jun

When you forward to me, I can’t zap.

I suspect I wouldn’t be alive if it never existed. If it just went away, then I’d guess most of my life would change for the worse until we scaled up alternatives.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 28 Jun

No, billions of people starving to death would not make my life better.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve OP 28 Jun

We have to break a few eggs 🍳 to make an omelette!

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 28 Jun

Progressives always say that, and we get the broken eggs, but I'm still waiting on any of the promised omelettes.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @wingalt 28 Jun

The typical response "Everything i use is electric. It wouldn't affect me much" kind of shows the current level of science education. Where does that electricity come from?

The Energy Return on Investment (EROI) of so-called renewable is atrocious, nuclear is the best EROI by far but you would still need a lot of hydrocarbons to lead to a nuclearisation of everything

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @JuanMiguel 28 Jun

Everything i use is eletric. It wouldn't affect me much. I'm not fan of "banning" anything tho.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @megaptera 28 Jun

Cooking without gas sucks

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve OP 28 Jun

Chefs don’t use electric stoves

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @quark 28 Jun

The transition is difficult. Electric systems are better but batteries still need a lot to improve. If we manage to have great batteries everything would look better. World should be investing in batteries development more.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve OP 28 Jun

Like gravity battery?