0 sats \ 4 replies \ @rizzling 20 Jun \ on: Is 24 words seed safer than 12 words in terms of bruteforcing the private key bitcoin_beginners
always pick 24 (+ 2 extra words if possible)!
its exponentially harder to brute force a 24 word seed phrase than a 12 word seed. pure math nothing else. And if the client looses his phrase it doesnt matter if he picked 12 or 24. he wont remember the phrase by memory anyway (at least 99% if them).
it's possible to brute force a 12 word seed in some days with the right ressources (most likely only avaiable for secret services and such who have quantum computers with at least ~100 qubits). That's not the case for 24 word seed. Such an attack would exceed the average lifetime of a human ;)
Disagree
Brute forcing by a human would make 12 words “easier” to brute force than 24 words. Computers don’t know words though. It’s zeros and ones.
Therefore the private key in binary looks the same whether it’s a 12 or 24 word seed.
Happy for someone with more expertise to correct me here though
reply
you need to improve your understaning of cryptography basics ;) brute forcing the seed phrase means try every possible combination of words. assuming you have 12 word phrase and you KNOW the exact 12 words but not the order its simple 12! (around 500.000.000 possibilities, takes a second to brute force with good gpu) BUT if you dont know any of the 12 words you have to try every possible combination (use the word list) and this differs extremely to a simple sum of 12! :P
the hashes (in binary) have the same structure and lenghts thats correct, but you (better to say hashcat or whatever u are using^^) is deriving them from all the different combinations of possible words. the longer the seed phrase the longer it takes....anyway its pointless to try to brute force a seed phrase from ZK ^^
reply
You really think a single Sig 12 word seed is going to be cracked in a few days with a quantum computer?
So why are all these wallets providing 12 word phrases like electrum, green wallet, wasabi, jam, samourai etc. So you're saying none of these developers are wrong?
Common mate....
reply
first; you did not understand me -> 12! = 479001600 that is the total number os possibilities assuming you have a 12 word seed (and you know all of the words but not the order)
second: if we assume that you have the capabilities (both technical and financial pov) a 12 word seed is a joke for 1000 qubits (or even more assuming perfect syncronization of superstates and the binary compilation and algorithms far beyond basic grover for error correction and so much more) - I know that most likely nobody will understand what I am talking about but anyway...it takes some days and you got the result.
-> what is important to notice: nobody performs such attacks in practice yet, there are endless reasons why it's not a real option to the time of writing. but this will change in the next decades.
reply