4658 sats \ 16 comments \ @RedRadish688 14 Jun culture

Lugano Trip Report

Inspired by the El Salvador Trip reports by @leo, I decided to write a report about my recent trip in Lugano, Switzerland. Lugano is advertised together with El Salvador as one of the biggest bitcoin circular economies. Let's see if it lives up to this promise!

Background

Lugano started the Plan B initiative in 2022 in cooperation with the company behind Tether, in order to promote bitcoin adoption in the city and has onboarded so far over 200 merchants. For more details see Lugano Plan B. In addition to promoting lightning the city has also created its own shitcoin, LVGA, which is pegged to the swiss frank (CHF). Furthermore, in order to incentivize adoption, it has developed an app MyLugano, with which it is possible to receive 10% cashback in LVGA on all crypto payments.

I temporary installed the MyLugano app to check it out, but deleted it again quickly, because it required KYC. Additionally it was quite buggy and I didn't like all the Web3 / NFT stuff. For the lightning payments I used the eNuts Cashu wallet and the Fedimint function of Mutiny wallet, which I both loaded with enough sats for the day.

All merchants can either be found on BTC Map or on the Lugano Plan B Merchant Map, which offers additional filters by category.

For receiving crypto payments all merchants use the same payment terminal developed by the city for this purpose. It is unfortunately filled with shitcoin distractions and for the lightning payment one has to navigate into the correct sub menu. In addition, one merchant confirmed that when you pay with bitcoin, the coins are actually converted to CHF and booked to the merchant's bank account the following days.

Tourist Perspective

From a tourist perspective Lugano is definitely worth a visit. With its beautiful lake it offers a relaxing atmosphere along the promenade. Furthermore one can take a funicular up the mountain and enjoy the view of the city. The city itself offers a mix of classic architecture and modern infrastructure. The Swiss-Italian cuisine features many interesting dishes. Furthermore it is possible to visit the nearby city of Bellinzona with its beautiful castles or the picturesque cities Locarno and Ascona, all within a train ride of 15-30 minutes. However, note that bitcoin merchant adoption in these cities is practically non existent.

Lightning Payment experiences

For the first payment I went to buy a bottle of water in a coffee shop. After the barista confirmed, that they accept lightning, she took out the payment terminal and started frantically searching for the bitcoin function. After a while she explained, that bitcoin payments are used very rarely and therefore she doesn't remember how to activate it. Luckily the shop was quite empty at that time and with my help we were able to find the bitcoin function in a sub menu. The path went something like "payment app / crypto / bitcoin". After typing in the amount in CHF, the terminal created a lightning invoice with a QR code, which I scanned with my phone. The payment itself went through smoothly.

The next stop was in a food store, where I bought a piece of pizza. I asked the person in the outer area of the store if they accepted bitcoin and in a very hesitant way he replied "yes it should be possible inside". The man at the cashier inside knew of the function but didn't know how to use it, so he had to call over another guy, who knew how to handle the terminal. This guy was confident in handling the payment. He mentioned that bitcoin payments are used by roughly one person per week while MyLugano payments are more frequent.

No trip is complete without a stop at McDonald's, so I went there next and chose a cheeseburger on the screen. I couldn't pay with lightning on the screen directly and instead I chose to pay later in cash. When I asked at the cashier to pay in bitcoin, the person knew immediately what to do and routinely activated the function in the terminal and handed it over to me. Again the payment went through smoothly.

Next I went to a pastry shop. Unfortunately at the same time a large group of people came in, which lead to a long lineup. The guy at the cashier didn't know how to initiate the payment with the terminal and therefore had to call over the girl, that was responsible for handing out the pastries. She was already quite stressed due to the lineup and quickly tapped a few different things on the terminal, which caused the whole device to freeze. She tried a few more things but wasn't able to unfreeze it again. So I ended up paying with credit card this time.

I decided to try one more pastry shop (I know, I eat too many sweets). Luckily this one was empty when I went in. After asking to pay in bitcoin the merchant hesitated initially but then agreed to it. Together we found the function in the terminal and I made it a point to memorize the path to the function for the future. The payment went again through smoothly.

The last stop was in restaurant, where we had the biggest payment of the day (around 150k sats). The waiter confirmed that they accept bitcoin and when it was time for the payment he came over with the terminal. He said that they started accepting payments with this terminal two weeks ago, since more and more people were asking for it (I didn't ask for more details, but I assume most asked for the MyLugano payment). He didn't know where to find the bitcoin function and I showed him the path, which I had memorized by now. The payment took a little longer this time (around 30 seconds) but again went through without issues.

Conclusion

Overall I had mixed feelings about the experience. It became clear that lightning use is much rarer than I expected. I am not sure what to think about the way adoption has been promoted with all the shitcoin distractions. On the one hand the 10% cashback incentivizes people to keep paying in crypto and therefore merchants to keep supporting the terminals. On the other the strong reliance on the fiat currency, either through MyLugano payments or through the automatic conversion of bitcoin payments to CHF stops the merchants from actually understanding and using bitcoin themselves. At least I am optimistic that lightning payments will continue to be supported by all onboarded merchants.

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132 sats \ 1 reply \ @SatsMate 15 Jun

I wonder why merchants notice people not wanting to pay in Bitcoin their?

One would think these would be tourist hotspots for bitcoin payments, right?

I think from a technical standpoint, these merchants want something out of the box easy. They often just want to sell, and don't care if it is hard money or soft money.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

It also made me wonder why it is used for rarely. I guess most people still prefer to just hold bitcoin and still rely on the convenience of the fiat system for payments. Which can be good for value but I also consider quite dangerous for censorship resistance if the only way to spend it is by bringing it back into the fiat ecosystem.

111 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 15 Jun

I live in Lugano and I was initially very enthusiastic about my city starting this project. How long did it take in your experience to confirm the payment? I once had a bad experience when a payment confirmed quickly in my wallet but then took around 3-4 minutes to confirm on their terminal (it was for a smallish amount, around 50 CHF worth of sats). Since then I am a bit conflicted because it bothers the merchants to wait that long, especially in a crowded situation and just asking to use lightning makes you stand out from the crowd.

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

Yes, I get your concerns. My experience was:

for small payments e.g. 5-10 chf it took maybe around 3-4 seconds to confirm in my wallet and another 3-4 seconds to confirm in the merchant's terminal, which I found competitive with other payment methods.
for a larger payment of around 90 chf it took around 30 seconds in my wallet and around 15 more seconds to confirm in the terminal. That was at a table in a restaurant, so no time pressure luckily.

Overall the increase in delay is definitely noticeable as the payment amount increases. What I also have noticed is, that the delay can vary from wallet to wallet, so maybe you want to start with small amounts in the 10 chf range with different wallets and slowly work it up from there.

111 sats \ 0 replies \ @leo 15 Jun

Thank you for your trip report! I myself went in March and had very similar experiences. It's good to see that for the most part, shops that were listed on BTCMap did indeed accept Bitcoin payments, but as you say, people rarely use it.

71 sats \ 3 replies \ @TonyGiorgio 14 Jun

Will be going to Lugano later this year, thank you for this report.

Fedimint function of Mutiny wallet

How has your experience been here? Are the payments quick enough for the in person merchant experience?

110 sats \ 2 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

Big thank you first for the work you are doing with Mutity Wallet!

Most payments I had where in the 5-10 chf range (8k - 17k sats) and it took maybe around 3-4 seconds to confirm in my wallet and another 3-4 seconds to confirm in the merchant's terminal. I found that quite competitive with other payment methods.

The largest payment I had was around 90 chf (150k sats) and it took around 30 seconds in mutiny wallet and then another 15 seconds to confirm in the terminal. Since it was at a restaurant table, it was not an issue time wise and it was a good opportunity to ask the merchant a few more questions. However I see how it could annoy some people in a lineup scenario.

120 sats \ 1 reply \ @TonyGiorgio 15 Jun

Thank you for that info! You said you're using the federation part exclusively? Do you know which federation you're in? I can ping some of them to open up some channels to the Lugano folks. If you happen to have any invoice from any of the merchants, I can look into the lightning node destination and get them connected.

110 sats \ 0 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

Yes, I made all payments through the freedom one federation. I have left Lugano by now, but I can send you some of the invoices I used that day.

I don't see any private message function here, so I will contact you through nostr.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @dgy 15 Jun

I paid once with lightning in a restaurant in Lugano last fall. The waiter exactly knew what to do and the payment went smoothly.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Carresan 15 Jun

Thanks for sharing your experience. Experience needs to be easy for merchants so that they offer the possibility to pay in bitcoin.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Beast_Vstar 15 Jun

Very nice, thanks for the trip report , ☺️

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @IamSINGLE 15 Jun

So, Lugano is nowhere close to El Salvador.

Can we stackers not do something about it? Can we not target smaller cities or countries to make it happen for Bitcoin?

I suppose a Bitccoin (SN) meetup for a week in a small city with a real objective of making bitcoin popular in the area Can work wonders. We eed to form a plan for it.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

It's also something I am thinking about a lot.

I think especially in countries where the currency hasn't yet collapsed, merchants are mostly motivated by boosting their sales, so the first obvious step would be asking to pay with lightning as much as possible.

Another area I noticed where lightning can shine is for small payments. For example I noticed many food trucks currently accept cash only payments, because credit card companies charge something like 1.50 CHF base fee plus 3% commision. With lightning the fees would be negligible and the payments tend to be pretty fast and with no issues for small amounts.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @TonyGiorgio 15 Jun

What did you think about Lugano as a city in general?

1100 sats \ 0 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

I am a fan of the city in general. It is definitely one of the more libertarian cities in Switzerland, as other big cities like Zurich are switching more and more to a California model. I assume this is also one of the reasons, that it is trying to promote bitcoin adoption.

The climate is also more mild, as it is closer to the south, which is a reason it is also known as the "Florida of Switzerland".

From a touristic perspective let me quote the block I wrote in the post:

From a tourist perspective Lugano is definitely worth a visit. With its beautiful lake it offers a relaxing atmosphere along the promenade. Furthermore one can take a funicular up the mountain and enjoy the view of the city. The city itself offers a mix of classic architecture and modern infrastructure. The Swiss-Italian cuisine features many interesting dishes. Furthermore it is possible to visit the nearby city of Bellinzona with its beautiful castles or the picturesque cities Locarno and Ascona, all within a train ride of 15-30 minutes. However, note that bitcoin merchant adoption in these cities is practically non existent.