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16 sats \ 18 replies \ @HardRich 1 May \ on: if bitcoin became illegal by law (part two) Personal_Finance
I think Monero may be a good idea - though, with trade offs. The problem, however, is getting the Monero in the first place.
If the Government knows that you bought $100,000 of Bitcoin then they’d also know you bought that much Monero. Aka, once you move out of fiat they’d know where you went next.
On the other hand, if you could buy Bitcoin or Monero without KYC then either is fine since you’d have privacy in the first place.
It’s KYC that is the problem - which Monero has, too.
Otherwise, tell me where I’m wrong. If you can get Monero without anyone knowing you got it then that’d be cool (but then I’d argue that the same thing could be done with Bitcoin).
Monero’s main benefit seems to be when you spend it. But the Government cares more about when you buy it, as far as I can tell.
Learn about bitcoin, you fucking moron, sockpuppet sociopath scum!
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just mute him. Let him fill my reply board with cussing. He's imposing tyranny that I should only like eggs and only eggs. But I like eggs and cheese and tells me to f off. Because I like two things and not just one.
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What if the eggs you liked were child porn, you sick fuck? Or Biden, or forcing people to be vaxxed, or any other number of things.
Totally inane comment to say "I like TWO things" and 1 + 1 is why I am immune to criticism. Fucking retard shitcoiners, no wonder the shitcoiners can fool you.
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eh, maybe a bit too vociferous, but no, you are saying nonsense. Monero doesn't work in the way you think it does
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That's the neat part, it doesn't.jpg
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you can buy monero, kyc free.. that's the point
buy you can also buy non-kyc free BTC as well. The problem is the ledger
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Why is the ledger a problem if you bought bitcoin KYC free? I’ll concede that if I buy something and I am ID’d then the buyer could know the size of my stack. If the buyer squeals on me to the government then that is a problem. There are solutions to that, though. Sure, lightning, ecash, fedi’s, etc aren’t built out perfectly yet but the government also isn’t full evil yet, either.
I could see Monero being a good coin for buying stuff but two things would need to be true: (1) no Bitcoin solution existing for privacy, and (2) more people accept Monero than Bitcoin.
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It's a problem because third parties and counter parties can view your transaction history and follow it going forward. Not only bad for security and personal safety, but bad for fungibility in general.
Another side affect is that targeted mining censorship becomes possible, while if Bitcoin were private, to censor a single transaction they would have to censor them all indefinitely. Much more difficult and expensive to do.
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Bitcoin can never offer you on chain privacy as it is transparent. You're confusing privacy (hiding actions) with anonymity (hiding identity - and a weaker form at that: pseudonymity) which is obscuring your identity. All amounts and transactions are visible to anyone in the world.
Buying non-KYC wouldn't solve lack of on chain privacy part
Ideal to have both anonymity and privacy as missing one can be used to unravel the other over time
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So what are the tradeoffs of Monero? Is it just small in market cap due to it coming out later? I thought you can't buy it on most exchanges? It's going to be hard for it to grow at any reasonable rate if hardly anyone can buy it. :(
Can it scale better than Bitcoin? If not, and everyone has to use Layer 2 tech on Monero then how is that any diff/better than using Layer 2 bitcoin (assuming privacy could be had in Layer 2, which it seems like it maybe can, though, I'm no pro).
Let's figure another scenario. Let's say Monero becomes the world reserve currency. No one can track anyone. Is that a good thing? Though maybe not possible and maybe it'll never happen, but I like the idea (and maybe it's only an idea) that bigger institutions (countries, banks, etc) have money that's traceable (bitcoin) but then normal citizens have some privacy (Layer 2). If countries and bankers use Monero is it a good thing that everything is hidden by default?
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Trade offs off the top of my head
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Not directly auditable circulating supply. Although in practice no one does this with Bitcoin, they just trust their node to audit (if they even run a node in the first place) like any Monero node runner. Monero uses complex cryptography and math to make sure there is no Monero that was created out of thing air (pedersen commitments). https://www.getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/pedersen-commitment.html
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Limitless supply. No hard cap. Has a tail emission. Although inflation is less than gold, and a constant (not a percent of supply), so in terms of % it is always falling closer and closer to 0%. And the bad part of fiat is that supply issuance is centralized, unpredictable, and arbitrary - all the opposite of Monero mining
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You have to sync your wallet which can be annoying, but some wallets have background sync features. Or you can use a light wallet that connects to your own node that runs at home.
I don't think countries, institutions, banks will ever use Bitcoin like that. Maybe between themselves, but they won't allow their citizens the same privilege.
Monero is not trying to be a reserve currency. It is just p2p digital cash.
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The “Move to Monero” isn’t great since if you bought the bitcoin with KYC and the government knows you bought $100,000 and then you moved to Monero then that’s really no diff than saying “boating accident.”
In other words, simply moving over to Monero does nothing for you, accept maybe privacy when purchasing. The government will treat you as if you have $100,000 of “illegal” money.
My guess is the government will say, convert your crypto to fiat or you’re going to jail. You’d have to sell your Monero.
In fact, one could argue Monero is worse in the above situation. With bitcoin you could prove that you sold some of your bitcoin elsewhere and no longer have access to $100,000. With Monero you either cough up $100,000 or go to jail - doesn’t matter if you spent/sold it.
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yes if you're KYC buying BTC then buying XMR then yes it's no different.
But if you used that money to buy xmr you skip the kyc process unless you're going through an exchange.
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