I did not say that. I consider m-of-n model to be a significant improvement, but of course the user has to verify that those n do in fact exist.

I think we're in agreement then that the purpose of a federation can only be to obfuscate the trusted party.

justin_shocknet

Are you really claiming that Liquid/Shitmints are Trustless?

Not trustless, but m-of-n trusted under assumptions that the wallets work as intended. Fedimint gateways are trustless only under assumption that you trust the federation itself.

You can't prove how many key holders there are, it's a trusted attestation

Indeed I have not independently verified that the 15 functionaries of Liquid are not the same person. For example, maybe the photos on 

https://liquid.net

 of the Nym guy are AI-generated and Nym is actually run by Blockstream. However, the m-of-n trust model is by definition broken if more than n-m parties are evil, and such a case does include the possibility that n-m+1 parties are actually one and the same. Users that worry about this possibility should either use fedimints run by their friends or investigate the Liquid federation more thoroughly than I did.

bitcoin

"Federated" is nomenclature used by scammers to mislead the non-technical

> Are you really claiming that Liquid/Shitmints are Trustless?

Not trustless, but m-of-n trusted under assumptions that the wallets work as intended. Fedimint gateways are trustless only under assumption that you trust the federation itself.

> You can't prove how many key holders there are, it's a trusted attestation

Indeed I have not independently verified that the 15 functionaries of Liquid are not the same person. For example, maybe the photos on https://liquid.net of the Nym guy are AI-generated and Nym is actually run by Blockstream. However, the m-of-n trust model is by definition broken if more than n-m parties are evil, and such a case does include the possibility that n-m+1 parties are actually one and the same. Users that worry about this possibility should either use fedimints run by their friends or investigate the Liquid federation more thoroughly than I did.