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10 sats \ 10 replies \ @freetx 21 Apr \ on: Look at this sh*t somebody tried to sell me as a scaling solution for Bitcoin bitcoin
Liquid exist along a spectrum of trust. Less than LN but greater than Fedimints/Cashu etc.
The best way to use it is as a "staging area" to get into LN
Least RiskGreatest Risk
BTCLNArk/MercuryLiquidFedimintseCashBitcoin Bank/CEX
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10 sats \ 9 replies \ @pakovm OP 21 Apr
It doesn't comply to my list of considerations to be a Layer 2:
  • No individual, organization, or group of individuals and/or organizations (a.k.a federation) custodying user's funds.
  • Unilateral exit.
So Liquid isn't a Layer 2 in my book, it's just WBTC with its own blockchain.
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10 sats \ 8 replies \ @freetx 21 Apr
Every solution is just various trade-offs, you just need to pick the ones that minimize your risk and maximize your benefit appropriately.
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10 sats \ 7 replies \ @pakovm OP 21 Apr
That's a non answer to the problem if you ask me.
What makes Liquid any different to Stacks WBTC, Polygon, Loopring, etc... Other than not having a governance token and/or running on Ethereum?
Everyone has been shiting on those things for years.
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20 sats \ 3 replies \ @freetx 21 Apr
I don't know anything about those Eth-style solutions so I can't really comment. But you say "other than not having a governance token" as if thats some small thing.
Liquid BTC (L-BTC) only exist when BTC is locked into the multisig. Its auditable that the same amount of BTC in multisig = same amount of L-BTC in existence.
Your practical options at this point in time are:
  • Mainchain
  • LN
  • Liquid
  • WBTC / etc
  • CEX
Thats all you have to choose from at the moment. Pick the thing you feel minimizes your risk and maximizes your benefit.
Personally, I think the list of Liquid members represents some of the most pro-bitcoin groups out there. The vast majority of those members are bitcoin only players...personally I trust them more than I trust WBTC / etc / whatever.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @pakovm OP 21 Apr
Still doesn't solve the problem.
The problem is not "how much you can trust Liquid and its federation", the problem is that trust is not a scaling solution for a trustless system.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @freetx 21 Apr
Still doesn't solve the problem.
Then your only solution is to wait for fees to fall or use a CEX.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @pakovm OP 21 Apr
Again, not the scope of the post, that's not the problem at hand here.
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10 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 22 Apr
Refusing to acknowledge trade offs is utopian and immature and petulant
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @pakovm OP 22 Apr
Wait, so well call the others "shitcoins" and "Peak FIAT" for years and now, Liquid, which has the exact same properties is just "a series of tradeoff"? What absolves them from being a shitcoin and "Peak FIAT"?
Has the community become this stupid or am I taking crazy pills?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 22 Apr
Crazy pills
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