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150 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 6 Apr \ parent \ on: Rant: Young People are Getting Terrible Advice and it's Destroying Our Culture culture
My friend, I'm a labor economist and this is not true for most students. For one thing, it's only a minority that finish college. So, that''s a negative return for most right there.
Then when we look at graduates, it's true that the average returns are positive, but that's because they are very large for the best students and basically zero for everyone else. For most people who finish college in America, it's a wash with what their lifetime earnings would have been if they hadn't gone.
That particular research is pretty new, though, so I'm not faulting anyone for not knowing it. What isn't new at all is knowing that most people don't finish college. Kids in American schools are not presented any alternatives to going to college. That strikes me as a horrible disservice when most will have to make their way without a college education.
Do you think that has anything to do with everyone telling them it's not going to work? Doesn't Singapore have one of the worst fertility declines in the world? Maybe these aren't healthy norms to be enforcing.
Fair point. I still think it would be better for our cultures to take these relationships more seriously and encourage commitment. I don't think people need encouragement to give up when things are hard.
I know it's tough to get started. It was tough getting started during the last financial crisis, too. If young people had more clarity about what they wanted to get out of life, though, they could start making decisions earlier that would help them get there. What I'm reacting to is a whole array of cultural messaging that systematically orients people away from the kinds of lives that most people find fulfilling.
I'm glad to hear that. I don't want to suggest that there's one path through life that everyone should take. What I'm bothered by is how many young people seem to be floundering in the hyper-novel environment our culture has become.
In this we totally agree. If I could reframe my point slightly, I'd say that I don't think young people are being equipped with the realistic expectations that would make those things more attainable.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Several things strike me as different about the Singapore situation.
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Culturally, we don’t have an issue of people not finishing college. I don’t even know if there are statistics that highlight the non-completion rate. About 60% of each cohort move on to college. So we have the problem of too many University graduates.
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Graduates in some fields earn more than others These figures are published transparently, so young people know what they are getting into. I think many young people are savvy these days. Their main job is just one way of getting an income. Everyone seems to have a side hustle these days. Haha
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Because we live in such a compact country, we are hyper-sensitised about comparing ourselves with the Joneses. People tend to take a pragmatic view towards life. There is this whole race about saving your first $100k before the age of 30. $100k is arbitrary, but many people subscribe to it because we are a competitive people. I think culturally, we are wired to give up on things if we CANNOT see a future at this point in time rather than wait to see how things will evolve.
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Just wanted to end this with a video about a Catholic boy converting to Islam because of his Muslim girlfriend. Not a LDR but the obstacles they went through to reconcile both families just send goosebumps down my spine. Which leads to my original point: couples who are really in love will give it a go, no matter what.
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Do you have a sense of how undergraduate college education compares in difficulty between Singapore and America?
My only points of reference are that European and Chinese colleges are considered easier than American, although good Chinese colleges are much harder to get into.
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I only know anecdotally that American colleges focus a lot on expressing your opinions aloud in class - and how some students fluff their way through with statements that sound grand but have no substance haha
Tbf I think it’s more difficult to complete college in the States. In Singapore, a natural support system exists. You arrive at the campus grounds, already knowing seniors or peers from tuition centres who have paved the way for you. We are a competitive people but most of us genuinely share our insights n notes with our friends. There’s this this sense of looking out for those around us. Some of us may live on campus, but it just takes us at most 1.5 hours to reach home and seek solace in the comfort of family.
Compare this to either a hothoused kid from a rich background or his counterpart from an inner city school. Having to fend for himself in a state he may not be familiar with, building up his support system by making friends from scratch, having to manage his own finances, succumbing to so many temptations like alcohol partying sex, feeling the giddy feeling of freedom - it’s just too many unknown variables to expect an 18-year-old to juggle with
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some students fluff their way through with statements that sound grand but have no substance
Can confirm
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