Help With LNDg? \ stacker news ~lightning

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317 sats \ 19 comments \ @siggy47 1 Apr 2024 lightning

Does anyone know of a source to explain all the functionality of LNDg? I'm really curious. I'm sure most stackers here manage their nodes from the command line. I'm not at the point where I'm completely comfortable with that, though I'm better than I was. I've watched all the youtube videos (BTC Sessions, etc al), but even those guys seem to have trouble understanding LNDg. I find it very interesting.

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306 sats \ 1 reply \ @nym 1 Apr 2024

Builder's Guide to the LND Galaxy is a good starting point

https://docs.lightning.engineering/

If you're interested in practical applications and hands-on learning, the LND tutorial at dev.lightning.community is a valuable resource. It walks you through building a Bitcoin micropayments paywall into a news site, starting with setting up a local cluster, using a web GUI for LND, interacting with LND through RPC clients, and integrating micropayments into a web application.

https://dev.lightning.community/tutorial/

202 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 1 Apr 2024

Great resource. @siggy47 is talking about cryptosharks131/lndg: Lite GUI web interface

296 sats \ 12 replies \ @kepford 1 Apr 2024

LNDg is not easy to use. Has a lot of functionality but the task of building easy to understand UIs to manage lightning nodes is not an easy one. I mean no disrespect to the dev/s behind LNDg but it takes a lot of time and effort to use it beyond just starring at it. I've learned to use it for a few things like batch opening channels, looking at my profit/loss (depressing), and other basic things.

I've not figured out any of the automation things and I've tried. I think some of the issues aren't with LNDg but are with the complexity of lightning. All that said, I'd love some resources around using LNDg myself.

596 sats \ 11 replies \ @DarthCoin 1 Apr 2024

I concur with all you said. What I would like to add is that LNDg is not meant to be used with just few channels. Is more for 200+ channels with a lot of traffic. If you have just 10-50 channels, you will be much better doing it manually few times balancing and using the valve system and you are good to go.

@siggy47 don't bother too much with this if you are using your node just for few personal payments. Just have well balanced your channels and you are good to go.

EDIT: here I wrote a guide some time ago about these aspects https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/lightning-routing-fees-experiment

154 sats \ 9 replies \ @siggy47 OP 1 Apr 2024

I agree @DarthCoin. I know this may sound crazy, but I won't use it for my node. As you know, my node is for personal use. I have a few large channels. What I'm trying to do is really understand the lightning network better. I'm not a technical guy. I don't find it easy learning node stuff through the command line. This software is GUI (sort of!), and it's crammed with all sorts of information re channels, payments, etc. Even after 2 1/2 years running a node, I'm still confused. I want to learn more about it, even though I probably won't use it. I don't learn well with technical books like Mastering The Lightning Network. Andreas gets way too technical for me really quickly.

108 sats \ 8 replies \ @DarthCoin 1 Apr 2024

Use Thunderhub or RTL. Very easy to use as node management for desktop. In that guide I explained some methods to use it manually, no automation.

Don't be confused, it is very good that you want to understand more how LN works and yes, through command line will be a mess for you if you are not comfortable with. LNDg is good indeed, but for the next step, when you have 200+ channels and you really need it for large traffic. LNDg is not running smooth with few channels and you will get frustrated.

Think about LN as a network of pipes, where the water are the sats in channels and the pipes are the channels, the transport. You are the "water manager" with a node and you have a big responsibility to make that water to flow smoothly through pipes, not too much but also not too little.

I hope you read my reply to Javier, on his post about closing his node: #486306

Also this guide, about liquidity https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/managing-lightning-node-liquidity

More guides about nodes here: https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/nodes.html

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 1 Apr 2024

Or use both. I started with RTL but now I use both depending on what I'm doing and what I want to see.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 1 Apr 2024

Exactly, it can complement each others easily in many tasks.

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21 sats \ 5 replies \ @siggy47 OP 1 Apr 2024

I got most of my information from your guides. I do use RTL and Thunderhub. I also did read your reply to Javier. It's kind of depressing, huh, that someone who built a really powerful node got disillusioned and decided to shut down?

75 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 1 Apr 2024

Noooo is not depressive at all! Why many people saw it like that? It is not. I think is a good thing that he came out to say that story. Is a big lesson for many, because you see, very few noobs know about that you can run in many ways a LN node.

Please don't consider that post as a FUD or bad thing for LN, it is not. Javier knows very well about the limitations of today of LN implementations, and his personal infrastructure limitations that were too low for his expectations.

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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 1 Apr 2024

Super helpful Darth! That makes a lot of sense.

225 sats \ 3 replies \ @nikotsla 2 Apr 2024

I think the only way to truly understand LNDg is to looking at the source code, it's python so it's almost like english pseudocode.

LNDg is a natural extension of what you want to automatize if you manage your node, so most of the functionality is a re-flexion of that.

Do you want to maintain a balance channel? maybe you want to answer these questions:

What balance? 50/50, 20/70
From what place do you want to get the "liquidity"? any other channel? an specific set of inbound channels?
When you want to start the "re-balance"? When you want to stop?
Do you want to fill the balance with only a few invoices? many?
How often do you want to try create those invoices?

For all that questions LNDg has a configuration, and those are only related with re-balance a channel.

It's too much info, for me... the best thing to do is to use the "water pipes" analogy and just focus in manage the min/max htlc, set a price you are comfortable and just let the water flow.

If you are in the path of learning, just start to do things manually (less than 20channels) and write what "task" you are doing, then try to automatize that, probably with 10% of the functionality of LNDg is enough.

PD: LNDg is network intensive... bad for Tor only nodes.

1 sat \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 2 Apr 2024

Thanks for the information. That's a lot of what I was looking for. Regarding it being network intensive, would those same issues exist with a hybrid node? In fact more generally, can you explain hybrid nodes? I know you can connect with both clearnet and Tor peers running a hybrid node. I do that, with tailscale.

75 sats \ 1 reply \ @nikotsla 2 Apr 2024

So, in your case (tailscale) as far I know is a VPN (tunnel), you have less hops but it's not the same as a clearnet only node without any hop in the middle.

Your node => Tor => Tor => Tor => Other node Your node => VPN => Other node Your node => Other node

In a competition to "find" the best path between two nodes, less (network) hops are good.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 2 Apr 2024

Understood. Thanks.