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10 sats \ 9 replies \ @om 31 Mar freebie \ parent \ on: KYC'd Bitcoin is Worthless bitcoin
All the layers I can think of except Rootstock offer some privacy:
- LN hides senders assuming they do routing on their own
- Liquid hides amounts
- Cashu hides everything except amounts
- Fedi is a hypothetical offspring of Liquid and Cashu, check out its beta
Also check out dark.fi, they're sort of like Liquid but with ZK, and they move Bitcoin and various cryptos privately.
The market segment that has the dire need of privacy values privacy, sure. But the market as a whole doesn't value it that much. So if I planned to only buy drugs in the future, then I'll stock up on Monero. But I plan to buy food, so I'll stock up on what the market in general values, which is Bitcoin.
I'm fairly familiar with these. Everything you listed has small or microscopic use though vs Bitcoin on chain or even altcoins so I'm not sure how it helps your point about the market choosing it. Even when compared to Monero its pretty small. Liquid is mostly empty blocks and no one uses. Most LN users are on custodial wallets or rely on LSPs so have reduced or no privacy. The only things that offers comparable strong privacy is Cashu and Fedi and those are custodial.
DarkFi is a cool project. They are merged mined with Monero actually.
Yes, I agree the market overall doesn't value privacy much. But of the market that does value privacy they are overwhelmingly choosing Monero, not a Bitcoin privacy layer. They are even increasingly replacing Bitcoin itself with Monero.
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I'd say LN is used a lot, Liquid... yeah not so much, and Cashu with Fedi are still beta.
Using an LSP doesn't mean you can't do routing yourself. Breez is a consumer-grade wallet that does routing on the phone. Of course, if the recipient is also using Breez then the route is trivial and there's no privacy...
Now Monero has its own usability issues because light wallets have to do O(n) work where n is the unseen chain size. In other words, Monero mobile wallets suck and won't improve. So Monero is good for mail ordering drugs but for buying pupusas on the street it won't work. I think we'll see a lot more Fedi on the streets in the near future and then the drug markets will also start accepting ecash issued by major mints.
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It's hard to compare LN since there is no public way to see tx count (although the largest nodes and cutsodial wallets have a pretty good picture, but we can't access that data afaik). There might be more small value transactions in LN, but there is less Bitcoin in LN than Wrapped Bitcoin on Ethereum (~3% of WBTC). It's also a tenth the size of Moneros cap.
The real problem is vast majority of LN users are using custodial wallets that see everything. Whatever little left uses LSPs like Phoenix that see destination and amounts. Almost no users run their own LN node to benefit from the full privacy of that. Just look at LN wallet downloads as a rough indication. Also look at Bitcoin node count versus number of users. If users arent running simple Bitcoin nodes they definitely are not dealing with the hassles of running their own LN nodes.
Yea, syncing is kind of annoying if you haven't used your wallet in awhile, but it is not that big a deal for the privacy and sovereignty you gain. Not sure when the last time was that you used a wallet, but there have been several major improvements to sync speed over the last year or two. Also, some wallets allow background sync so you are always caught up.
Maybe people will start using ecash for smaller things we'll see.
stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.