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US Sues Apple For Illegal Monopoly Over Smartphones www.theverge.com/2024/3/21/24105363/apple-doj-monopoly-lawsuit

2182 sats \ 53 comments \ @0xbitcoiner 21 Mar tech

zaps forwarded to @hn (50%)

US Sues Apple For Illegal Monopoly Over Smartphones

The Department of Justice claims Apple has maintained an illegal monopoly over the smartphone market by locking in customers and making experiences worse for rival products.

https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:2040x1360/640x427/filters:focal(1020x680:1021x681):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25345077/STK468_APPLE_ANTITRUST_CVIRGINIA_F.jpg

The US Department of Justice accused Apple of operating an illegal monopoly in the smartphone market in an expansive new antitrust lawsuit that seeks to upend many of the ways Apple locks down its phone.

The DOJ, along with 16 state and district attorneys general, accuses Apple of driving up prices for consumers and developers at the expense of making users more reliant on its phones. The parties allege that Apple “selectively” imposes contractual restrictions on developers and withholds critical ways of accessing the phone as a way to prevent competition from arising, according to a release.

... read more

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1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly nytimes.com link @hn #474383

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 22 Mar

In a detailed accusation contained within an 88-page complaint, the government criticizes Apple’s imposition of restrictions on multifunctional “super apps,” its manipulation of messaging functionalities between Apple and non-Apple devices, and its monopolization of tap-to-pay features exclusively for Apple Wallet.

242 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 21 Mar

OK, can we stop using the world monopoly incorrectly. There is a duopoly of Google and Apple for phone OSs. They don't even have a monopoly on the phone market. What I hear is crying. I hear, I don't like the status quo. We have this false idea that everything should be "balanced", whatever that means. Who decides what the right "balance" is? Should it be the government? What about their monopoly. They kill people. They steal from people. They are the evil ones.

While on on the governments of the world who seem to behave like the arbitrators of what is right and wrong, how do we think companies like Apple become what they are? They have mountains of IP law preventing competition. Apple is not the problem. The state is the problem. And the state is paid off to create an environment where ideas are caged under "Intellectual Property" laws. Competitors are not allowed to take what works in the Apple system and change it up. This is what creates the problems people complain about. Not Apple. Apple uses the system, don't get me wrong. They either use the system or it is used against them.

Apple is successful because they make a very good product that people love. They do not have a monopoly. I dislike them and their practices but those practices would be better reformed by ripping down IP law and opening the world to true free market forces. Few people go to the root of these problems. This is why have very little interest in politics because it is all bull shit. Few if any are interested in understanding the problems let alone fixing them. They want headlines and votes. They want their payday from their special interest groups. And all the while the state gets more power and money and we become less free.

If you don't like Apple I'm with you. Stop buying their stuff. Run GrapheneOS and a Linux computer. The free market is real democracy. We are all voting with our choices every day. Stop ceding this to the state or one day you will wake up and realize you've created a prison for your children.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

The people should be the ones to decide the balance, and in this case, not opening the app market is preventing people from making that choice. They argue that it's for security reasons, and to some extent they have a point. I think they need to find a different way to achieve a balance between the two. I don't know what the best solution is, but they certainly have the people to think about it.

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Mar

I believe in freedom. That belief comes into conflict when it involves someone else's property. I don't like Apple's practices but honestly I see nothing wrong with them beyond my preferences. I don't believe in positive rights, only negative rights.

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @astro_penguin 21 Mar freebie

The problem I see is that none of the rulings against Apple or any of the big tech companies seem to have any teeth. They obey the letter of the law, but change things in the background to keep the status quo. The only change that I'm thinking of that hasn't been undermined in some way is the switch to USB-C.

26 sats \ 13 replies \ @kepford 21 Mar

I seriously thought this was satire. I mean it is. But its also real. Remember when... who am I kidding. I'm old. Many years ago when Apple was barely alive Microsoft was hit with a monopoly lawsuit... this stuff never ends.

Kids, this is why we can't have nice things. Someone has to go to daddy government and cry.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

1998

0 sats \ 11 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

I can't deny that Apple makes good products, but in all honesty, I hate Apple and its monopoly. Yes, these stories never end, but they serve as an attempt to balance the market a bit, but I agree that they rarely have any effect. Let's see...

20 sats \ 10 replies \ @kepford 21 Mar

Its not a monopoly. What is balance? 50/50? Do we see balance in nature? Why? Is it always 50/50? Think about those things. We are propagandized from birth that we need the state to make things right yet they are the ones with the true monopoly.

0 sats \ 9 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

Whether it's a monopoly or not, the courts will decide. Balance is never 50/50, even in nature. Sometimes it's 60/40 and other times it's 40/60.

It's true that we're conditioned from childhood to feel the need for the existence of the state. I don't think everything is bad about it, but I don't think everything is good either.

If you think about it, the state doesn't have a guaranteed monopoly. If the people want to, and if they come together, they can change things. I agree that most people don't want to know about this, because they're worried about putting food on the table and don't have time to make this revolution. The revolution isn't on TV, right?

16 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Mar

Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just saying who am I or you to say what the balance should be? And who is the DOJ? We all have choice with what phone we use. That's my issue here. People are choosing it. They are doing so because they must like it. This is not a problem to fix IMO. If Apple keeps going down this path they will piss off enough people to make their position in the market falter. We don't need the DOJ.

Of course you are right about people and the state. If the masses decided tomorrow to stop believing the fairy tale it would fall as fast as the USSR did. The state does many necessary functions. I agree. Governance is needed but there is a better way. I hope my children live to see it.

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @kepford 21 Mar

I think we pretty much agree lol. So it just hit me. You said that if people didn't want the state, things would change. That is true but far less likely than a computer company. My issue is how we are directed to focus on private companies as the problem vs. the state. Apple could screw up and lose market share tomorrow but the state has guns and men ready to use them. This is the monopoly least likely to be broken.

33 sats \ 6 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

To be honest, I only got interested in this topic because I don't like Apple. I think everyone should follow their own conscience and decide accordingly. It doesn't make any difference to me whether they have a monopoly or not. Hahaha.

16 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Mar

I hear ya. I don't like what they do either. I wish more people would use Linux and value privacy and freedom. Best I can do is do what I believe and set an example as a path finder.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

If you use Google and android then the business practices of Apple don’t matter

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

It doesn't matter to me personally, as it doesn't have a direct impact on my life. However, we can't afford to ignore it, as these issues could come back to bite us in the future.

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16 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinsreporter 21 Mar

I don't understand why so many people hate apples? I don't eat apples but I love them.

https://m.stacker.news/22197

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

I eat an apple every day. An apple a day keeps the doctor away.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 22 Mar

It was only a matter of time before Apple was accused of this. Its like the landfill bitcoin story. Every other year Apple is accused of this and then it finds its way out of its predicament.

0 sats \ 29 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

Apple has a monopoly on iOS app distribution.

Tell me what is wrong with this statement

13 sats \ 4 replies \ @PlebeiusG 21 Mar

Imagine if every tech product was designed to work ONLY with other devices from the same brand?

Have a computer from company XYZ? You can ONLY run software approved by that company's committee. Why? Because we said so. Are there technical limitations? No, we just want to make moneh!

Tech would suck. We'd still have black and white TVs! 🤭

3 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

The black and white television 📺 analogy is hyperbole

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @PlebeiusG 21 Mar

Indeed - I'm glad you caught that.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 22 Mar

Use a better metaphor

No need to distort or exaggerate

Distortion discredits

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 22 Mar

🥺

11 sats \ 3 replies \ @PlebeiusG 21 Mar

They prevent interoperability on their devices. Now that their devices are so widespread, they are preventing an increasing amount of companies and individuals the ability to have tech sovereignty. Some magical tipping point makes this a harm to the public for the benefit or private enterprise.

Hmm.. I'm digesting my thoughts on this as well...

But the water has gotten too hot for me and this frog already jumped out of the Apple Ecosystem Boiling Pot awhile ago.

Give me freedom-protecting, decentralized, open tech, or give me death!

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

Should Apple be forced to support tech sovereignty?

What about Google search?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Taurus 22 Mar

Too much adds on Google, and what they do to your privacy is a shame. Lot of bitcoiners talk about privacy, I hope they don’t use Google then…. Unfortunately for the consumers Google is the best right now because of their oligopole.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 21 Mar

I say more like the opposite...

They shouldn't be forced to implement any given tech, but its the purposeful prevention of tech interoperability for the sake of some Brand excuse that irks.

For example, much of tech has been designed to be agnostic as to end-device at the protocol layer in order to allow anything to work with any other thing. Bluetooth, HTTP, WiFi... especially application layer stuff like filesystems and links!!

So making a sleak interface that gives like-Branded devices a first-class experience is great for the end user only if they have the same brand. This flies into the face of what tech standards are f'n for!!!

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Taurus 22 Mar

That’s terrible, everybody needs to pay apple at their price if they want to do something. Concurrence doesn’t exist anymore. Clients will always be the ones loosing. Can’t really understand the comments of this post. People seem to forget the benefits of open source, open standard, working together and true concurrence.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Mar

And? I have a monopoly on what is on my systems. Is the answer for daddy gov to come in and use force? Or is daddy gov the problem creating the status quo.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @scoopa 21 Mar

You aren't wrong. In EU there will be a bunch of new options for app distribution and some new payment processing options. This is a done deal in EU and it could follow suit in the USA.

0 sats \ 16 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

Apple is trying to maintain its monopoly on the distribution of iOS apps.

???

16 sats \ 14 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

Why can’t a company control its own product? It’s like Microsoft having a monopoly on windows or azure. Or Amazon has a monopoly on AWS

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 21 Mar

Also, Microsoft is no stranger to their own anti-trust litigation...

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @PlebeiusG 21 Mar

Because if that tech is "roads themselves which most cars needs to drive on" ... at some point you say "ok thanks for inventing this... but you need to remove the code that prevents motorcycles, scooters, tractors, busses, etc" because holy shit roads are great but stop giving your Apple Cars first class road access while preventing other vehicles from working properly!

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

People can use Android or another device

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @PlebeiusG 21 Mar

Yes they can. But if Google does the same thing (and to some respect they do) THEN what.

That's why this is important. This harms the average Joe that has no clue. Tech companies are doing this intentionally. There are tech standards bodies for a reason - to allow tech to "just work." Sound familiar...?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

The department of justice does not represent tech standards bodies.

Which bodies are you referring to?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 21 Mar

Easy - NIST, IEEE, W3C, ANSI, NISO, The Linux Foundation... iono man... the SME's that actually try to make inter-operable tech!

reply on another page

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner OP 21 Mar

I see your point, but I also think that the app market is a different beast. It would be like Microsoft prohibiting the installation of non-Microsoft apps on Windows. But I get your point, it does make some sense.

8 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

Apple controls the app market for iOS.

Google controls Google Play or whatever its app market is called.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @xz 21 Mar

its own product?

To my mind, the product is really just a collection of hardware vendor's products, glued together with an OS.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

I meant the App Store. Apple controls its own App Store

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @xz 21 Mar

Ah, I guessed that you were making a different point. Just trying to convey my own feeling with Apple (not trying to manufacture an argument or play devil's advocate.) Absolutely. As far as appstores go, it should be under complete control (or no control) as they decide. Just like a physical store.

I guess following that analogy, it strikes me that in the same way we used to see lots of independent mom and pop stores selling whatever they chose, they all got bought out and are now chainstores providing the same function but more uniform in their offerings. It's just the monopolization part which annoys me.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

Regarding mom and pop stores I guess it depends on the product or service.

Or small chains vs mega chains ⛓️

I understand app makers are upset with Apple for its high commission and approval process

The department of justice will make the situation worse. I guess it’s a sign that Apple and iPhone are ubiquitous

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 21 Mar

Lets not forget, we all stand on the shoulders of giants. Bitcoin is a collection of other technologies and ideas as well.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @xz 21 Mar

Easy to forget when you use an end-product.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Mar

I’m quoting the source article