Why Hasn’t Anyone Made a Durable Phone? \ stacker news ~tech

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1174 sats \ 30 comments \ @kr 5 Mar tech

Phones are basically a must-have device for most people, and their replacement cycle is every few years (i don’t know if i’ve ever used a phone for more than 5 years).

I was wondering today why nobody has tried making a phone that will last for decades in the same way some cars last for decades.

What is the constraint on making phones that last multiple decades - or even a lifetime?

For the sake of this question, let’s assume the phone doesn’t need to have automatic software updates, the latest tech specs, or even a camera. it just has to work for calls, text, and ideally browsing the web.

Is it possible to build a phone that can last a lifetime?
If you were to try, how would you approach this challenge?
What aspect of a phone is the most fragile/prone to breaking?

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974 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 6 Mar

Firstly it would need to be modular & upgradable to likely last for decades.

Secondly, I believe phones will be like tablets in 10 years. Much more sparingly used. It’s a mature product that has reached stagnation. Attention will eventually go elsewhere.

But if we truly were to focus on the everlasting aspects:

Screens need to be super tough
Replaceable & recyclable batteries required
Water & stupidity proof

It would also help if it were fashionable for us to have:

wearable cameras so that phones dont need to be the performance cam anymore - given issues over thickness
desire for disconnectivity - so can reduce battery size and have them bend in your pocket or wrap around your wrist.

317 sats \ 9 replies \ @ch0k1 5 Mar

The older one of us have been using such phones in the beginning of the mobile phone era (between 2000-2010). They could literally outlive you and I clearly remember their batteries lasted more than a week. Here are just some of the companies behind them - Siemens, Nokia, Sony, Ericsson, Sony-Ericsson etc

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @SatsCats 6 Mar

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/705/738/64d.jpg

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ch0k1 6 Mar

Lol, this drill was possible without even powering off the device 🤣😜

10 sats \ 6 replies \ @kr OP 5 Mar

haha that was before my time. do any of them still work today?

80 sats \ 5 replies \ @ch0k1 5 Mar

Yeah, I bet 1000 Sats my Nokia would power up and make a phone call if I put my SIM card (with SIM extension to make it compatible for the slot)

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @kr OP 5 Mar

interesting, i assume you can’t browse the internet on that phone, right?

129 sats \ 3 replies \ @ch0k1 6 Mar

Lol, you're wrong! 🤣

You could browse the Internet but back then the websites were transitioning between the so called Web 1.0 to Web 2.0 so they were mostly static and with very limited functionalities but I still remember being able to download a very pixelated 240x320 photos or polyphonic ringtones...

WoW 😲 you managed to bring me 20 years back 💭

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 6 Mar

🤯

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 6 Mar

🐍

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatsCats 6 Mar

Feeling old all of sudden after reading this thread lol

295 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 5 Mar

I remember in my youth throwing my Nokia 3210 in the air and trying my damn hardest to destroy it. I soon gave up. Progress, I guess.

233 sats \ 1 reply \ @TwoLargePizzas 6 Mar

Although some people use these words interchangeably I think there needs to be a distinction between 'durability' and 'longevity'.

Durability refers to the ability to withstand damage. I would argue the market demand for durability has mostly been satisfied. Most people don't need military grade strength in their phone and for those that do there are phone cases that meet this need. In other words, there's not a lot of market demand for a more durable phone.

Longevity is a very different beast. If we compare the iPhone 1 to the latest iPhone 15 or whatever, there's a distinct difference in hardware capability. Back in 2007 it wouldn't have even been possible to make or even anticipate what phones would be in 2024. Even if they tried making a modular & upgradable phone they most likely would've got it wrong and it would've been significantly more expensive. In other words, not economically viable.

These days the difference between phone generations has largely stagnated. I think we can all agree the difference between the iPhone 14 and 15 is minimal at best. But the question then becomes, what is the market demand for a phone that lasts a decade? Maybe there is a market for something like this now. I don't really know. I personally wouldn't be placing my bets there but who knows, maybe somebody will.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @freetx 6 Mar

Good points, I think that Longevity has already been achieved (mostly), albeit not intentionally.

Basically people want phones for 4 main task: Comms, GPS, Camera, and Web. The current crop of phones do that very well. I'll be honest with you, I just had to check what model phone I even have....turns out its an iPhone 11...

This is very analogous to the growth path of the PC desktop. It used to be (80s, 90s) that people upgraded desktops every few years. Articles used to be written highlighting the upcoming features of next years models which the public eagerly waited on...each new model seemed to bring massive capacity improvements that resulted in real-world benefits....then around mid 00's the real world benefits of any additional improvement stopped being meaningful: Does it send emails? Does it browse the web? Does it have a spreadsheet?

Phones are basically a solved problem and outside of a few niche usecases there is no real pressing need to upgrade. In fact I would go one step further and say you should basically buy used phones from here on out....a lightly used Phone (in which you've let someone else take the depreciation hit).

205 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 6 Mar

I find besides batteries and screens phones last pretty long. I have never tried to get my phone to last more than 4 or so years but I have an ipad that is about 10 years old.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

I plan to replace the battery on my current phone which is almost 3 years old. My previous phone lasted 4 years which I still use for data storage

184 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 5 Mar

My phone turns 6 this year. It's doing well. I don't use it very much though. I browse SN and answer stray chat messages and stuff.

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr OP 5 Mar

do you feel like your browser/apps crash more frequently or take forever to load?

that was always my signal that i needed a new phone.

91 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 6 Mar

No it seems to work really well, but I also don't use a lot of modern apps.

605 sats \ 4 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 6 Mar freebie

Phones will never be durable for the long tail, for the same reason general purpose laptops - the fast march forward of hardware technology, the slow march backward in software :-) Software grows significantly sophisticated and outlives its silicon home. As the software on phones is mostly single consumer focused, it will always bloat bloat bloat with customer expectations.

Another problem is the limited recharge cycles of the Lithium Ion batteries. Additionally, the iPhone started the trend of the sealing the battery for its IPX (water/intrusion resistance). So we need to either user replace, or perpetual life cells.

So we need:

Software that doesn't grow more bloated
Hardware that doesn't get better
Battery chemistry that lasts a very long time or
People accepting less water and dust resistance, and thus shortening the life

Not very likely.

98 sats \ 0 replies \ @plebpoet 6 Mar

mysterious wizard indeed

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @kr OP 6 Mar

great explanation, thank you!

if i understand correctly, the software piece is entirely up to the phone manufacturer, correct?

for example, if i was committed to building an android phone that didn’t have any software bloat over time, could i ensure that didn’t happen (while still ensuring my phone could communicate with others?)

406 sats \ 0 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 6 Mar freebie

Mostly, but there are certain conditions that must be met for Play services, for example. Users generally want this. They also want to use Internet Banking, and other services which may require a non-root retail ROM that will pass certain checks.

Some vendors like Huawei build their ROM from open source android (ASOP), or fork it and build their own to avoid dependency. Huawei is building HarmonyOS, which may not be compat with Android in the future. (Good luck with that Huawei....).

You cannot commit to this, it is not something that can be committed to. Security updates, for example, are mandatory. Without, your phone users get hacked. (And this can be 0 touch, remote, no notification, kinda hack.). Software is like a living thing. It grows and bloats over time. There is no didn't have bloat and still be useful to a majority of users.

252 sats \ 0 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 6 Mar

You may be interested to see https://www.kaiostech.com/explore/devices/

KaiOs is a commercial fork of the Firefox Mobile OS. It powers lots of devices in the developing world that are optimized for battery and price.

560 sats \ 0 replies \ @ablunderfilledlife 6 Mar

I was musing over this phenomenon in my post this morning!

The phone cover is a cheap and elegant solution to improving a phone's durability, but that does nothing for the inner components.

I think the Nokia is a great example of a phone that could continue working today. The screen and display are most in danger of getting damaged.

138 sats \ 0 replies \ @Voldemort 6 Mar

I was wondering today why nobody has tried making a phone that will last for decades in the same way some cars last for decades.

Cars last decades but need updates/maintenance along the way. Cars are so expensive it is worth buying a new battery over a new car (or even smaller things like oil changes). There is a sufficiently large market for used cars so there is value in my car being able to run after I get rid of it. I am comfortable leaving my car with a stranger to get fixed because there is zero personal information on it. There is also less cost to not having your car for a while. Even weeks. You can get a loaner, uber places, use a friends/spouses car, etc., and as long as you get where you need to be there are little costs.

On the other side, if all phones could do is text, make calls, surf the web, I would not be willing to spend very much money on one which means it would be easier to replace than get fixed.

People think of phones this way but really all tech is similar. We don't have any tech for decades, even if it could last decades.

90 sats \ 0 replies \ @south_korea_ln 6 Mar

Fair Phone is doing just that.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 6 Mar

This is more of an issue than ever as new chips and 5g modems produce more heat, and the performance degrades. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING CASE is a thermal insulator, and even if it weren't, there would be a ton of thermal resistance in gap. This is why it would be vastly superior to simply have a phone that is toughened and doesn't need a case. There hasn't been a decent flagship tough phone since the Samsung S8 Active.

But your question is dumb. Phones still get better year after year wayyyy faster than cars. More than 1 year is reasonable, but definitely not a decade. Phones are also cheap. If you got a $200 phone every 2 years, you would have a way better phone than $1k phone every 5 years, and it costs a lot less than a car while providing immense value. Modern phones are amazing.

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @TNStacker 6 Mar

Where is the cash flow in that? Business is all about the cash flows, baby. 😎

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @xz 6 Mar

unfortunately for humanity.