PWAs are the way to freedom and accessible web \ stacker news ~devs

PWAs are the way to freedom and accessible web

4164 sats \ 40 comments \ @supratic 13 Feb devs

Still reading online of people complaining about appl and gogle app distribution monopolies.

I feel things are changing and however it will go, I feel there's less and less space and reward to build apps for mobiles stores. I'm still seeing the appstores as a mere marketing tools, but apart that, do they serve any other function on top of all limitations, terms and policies we need to agree to have our app there?

Just want to remember us all that we are in power to decide and vote with our own actions. Build and use PWA on your devices, whenever the option is available. Don't let the few gatekeepers in this sector take your data.

No notifications? Who cares! Do we really need them to bother and distract us from whatever we are concentrated doing?

Mobile apps are part of the past... Build and use the open web, not for the stores!

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70 sats \ 4 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 13 Feb

PWAs can have notifications. SN’s does - albeit, there are some minor hiccups here and there

110 sats \ 3 replies \ @supratic OP 13 Feb

I like the minor hiccups and your optimism :) thanks

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @dk 14 Feb

any idea why i sometimes get SN push notifs as i would expect and i sometimes only get them after i open the app?

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 14 Feb

Probably this

https://github.com/stackernews/stacker.news/issues/411

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Kathleen_Croteau 14 Feb

My PWA keeps signing me out.

142 sats \ 10 replies \ @k00b 13 Feb

The web is ideal in a number of ways, but until we can store secrets securely in a browser, we'll need native apps.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @sebastix 14 Feb

This is also about trust right? What do you trust more, your browser (for pwa’s) or your operating system (for native apps)?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xIlmari 13 Feb

Pretty sure smartphones have had secure elements for some years now (like Samsung Knox), it's just that they use it for proprietary security measures (like storing biometrics) and have not made them available to app developers.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @shyfire 14 Feb

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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @supratic OP 13 Feb

examples? are you referring to storage VS browser cache?

I understand from an integration perspective, native apps have better (direct) access to hardware and sensors that webapp may not have without authorization.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b 13 Feb

Storing your nostr key for SN to sign stuff with. Storing E2E messaging keys. Basically any key material or sensitive data that you don't want stored on a server.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @supratic OP 14 Feb

... and isn't encrypted local storage safe enough?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @supratic OP 13 Feb

for nostr I agree is still early, but nos2x and Alby are doing great on desktop browser. I'll be not surprised if they extend to mobile soon.

maybe browser extension on mobile? Seen Nostore doing some interesting experiment on appl devices

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 13 Feb

Safari on iOS doesn't support extensions and requiring another app be installed can be frictionful. It is still early.

981 sats \ 1 reply \ @sebastix 14 Feb

Nostore as a Safari extension does the job well, but does not work in a PWA.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @supratic OP 14 Feb

not yet!

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 20 Feb

Did you say PWA? I’ve created a few of those. Check them out on the Bullish Apps page. 😎

7 sats \ 1 reply \ @jp30566347 7 Mar

Cool stuff!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 7 Mar

Thanks!

10 sats \ 6 replies \ @felipe 13 Feb

Disclaimer: I like web browsers, I just don't like my apps running inside them when I have the option to go native :D

In my career, I have built a handful of PWAs and many native apps, so here are my two cents on web apps.

The web browser is terrible for anything more complex than a simple HTML site with a few dynamic elements. It offers:

Subpar Usability

Different browsers have different rendering engines, so what looks and feels good on a new iPhone running Safari might not (and probably won't) look and feel the same on my old Xiaomi running Firefox Nightly. To be fair, this is also the case with native apps sometimes, but the differences are more subtle and more manageable.

Terrible Performance

Even poorly coded native apps easily blow PWAs out of the water;
Most browsers take several seconds to load on low-spec devices. Stacker News takes as much time as Twitter to load on my device, which is between 15 and 30 seconds.

Terrible Security

Lack of secure storage (see @koob's answer);
Your code runs on a browser, which is a slow beast more complicated than a full operating system, so who knows what's happening in runtime. Of course, the same could be said about native apps because they run on top of complicated operating systems, but at least it's one layer less than a PWA, which introduces an additional layer by running within a browser on top of the OS.
Etc...

Terrible Developer Experience

Buggy tooling;
Terrible debugging experience due to JavaScript;
TypeScript offers better debugging capabilities but is not a language I would call good.
Etc...

Maybe WebAssembly will fix these issues (except for slow browser loading), but then what's the point? Why not just make it native instead.

Also, HTMX is really promising and might help with some of the issues above.

16 sats \ 1 reply \ @supratic OP 14 Feb

Thanks for your response, it makes much more sense now.

The HTMX is really interesting too, I'll deep dive into it a bit more. Always hear about and never dive into it. Checking HTMX.org just now. Any other reference you could suggest?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @felipe 14 Feb

Yeah, HTMX.org has all you need to get started

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @sebastix 14 Feb

SN takes 15-30 seconds to load!? Sorry but that’s really hard to believe for me. On what OS with what browser is that?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @felipe 14 Feb

SN takes 15-30 seconds to load?

Yes but it's not SN's fault. It's the browser's fault. I use Firefox Nightly on Android on a 6 yo Xiaomi device.

In contrast with that, my native SN app loads instantly.

26 sats \ 1 reply \ @sebastix 14 Feb

I didn't know that SN has a native app available.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @felipe 14 Feb

It doesn't have an official one but I developed mine 😅

It's been a few months since I updated it so it's probably broken but I'll get back maintaining it soon.

https://github.com/felipebueno/stacker_news

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @franzap 14 Feb

gogle app distribution monopolies

This is not correct

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @franzap 14 Feb

https://zap.store/ 👀

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @sebastix 14 Feb

Please check out this initiative / demo

https://whatpwacando.today/

Build by a fellow Dutch developer https://www.dannymoerkerke.com/

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @supratic OP 14 Feb

That's a nice one to increase PWA potential! really useful, thanks

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @teodor 13 Feb

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @shyfire 13 Feb

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @KLT 13 Feb

This completely, once I saw Mutiny doing PWA, I was ehh at first but after trying it and seeing where things could head with Apple and Google, PWA apps and them getting better feels like the way to go.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @shyfire 14 Feb

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @KLT 14 Feb

Same. I’ve slowed down on using Mutiny after figuring out how to setup my own lightning node but I imagine I’ll be messing with it again soon enough.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BitByBit21 13 Feb

Wondering how far would Apple go to keep their walled garden. I'm not an iOS user nor I'm in the EU, so not sure how they nerfed PWAs. But hopefully it will not be enough to let people use them as a freedom tool!

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @OriginalSize 13 Feb

As far as their users let them. Most iOS users I know don't even consider another option so it's going to take some pretty disgusting behavior.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @GlobalThreat 13 Feb

i always try pwa first now.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @PlebeiusG 13 Feb

Fuck walled gardens.

If you're a bitcoiner who is still building software that i can only get from these closed source authoritarian rent-seekers then shame on you!!

FREEDOM!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 13 Feb

Building a self-hostable system that backends a PWA is extra awesome.

Let people run free, private, unruggable software