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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 16 Jan \ parent \ on: On Lincoln history
When you're on someone else's property staying on it and negotiating when to leave does not mean you have a right to be there or that the owner doesn't have a right to remove you. That's not a perfect analogy, but it should get my point across. Continuing to occupy the fort (and other territories in the seceding states) is the action that the North knew was provocative. Obviously, I don't think they should have expanded slavery.
It may well be true that some group of Confederates intentionally sabotaged a peace process. I would never rule something like that out.
It may well be true that some group of Confederates
The group in question is the members of the Confederate government,up to and including the president of the CSA.
every time I've quoted the cornerstone speech it's the vice president talking.
this is not a weird minority fringe of the CSA,it's the people that made actual decisions about the nature of their government.
Obviously, I don't think they should have expanded slavery
Their desire for secession is directly conjoined at the hip to their desire to maintain slavery and their fear it would eventually go away.
Without this thirst for unpaid labor, and the desire for the state to protect that theft,
they would never have left.
Once this is understood then you'll see why the Confederates didn't consider peace an option.
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At no point was I seeking to defend the CSA. Even if they were not considering peace an option, if Lincoln also was not considering peace with the newly independent states an option (my understanding of the situation) then both sides bear some responsibility.
Also, even if the start of the war was entirely the CSA's fault, that wouldn't absolve Lincoln of responsibility for how the war was waged. He had many more people killed and maimed and much more property destroyed than was needed to defend the Union states from any southern aggression.
As interesting as this conversation has been, it has well surpassed my interest in the Civil War.
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When you're on someone else's property
It literally was the federal government's property initially and during negotiations for the transition to the new Confederates they held them hostage via blockade for weeks before opening fire.
You need to negotiate for some peaceful means of transitioning those soldiers and weapons out so the people inside know they won't immediately get killed- otherwise they have every incentive to stay inside -and it's during that process the Confederates opened fire.they would have gotten the fort without doing so- they were literally telling them time and date they would walk out so they would not see their movements as hostile
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