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687 sats \ 7 replies \ @gnilma 4 Dec 2023 \ on: Have you tried bisq? bitcoin
Bisq used to be my primary way to stack sats with Robosats being a secondary method. A few thoughts as a Northman using Bisq:
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the Canadian order book is ridiculously thin, making sats at least 3%-5% more expensive to stack. The same seem to be the case for smaller currencies. But I've looked at the Euro and USD order books and they seem much better with multiple offers asking at market price (I haven't check recently, but at least that was still the case earlier this year when u still used bisq)
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the primary payment method in Canada is interact e-transfer, which is something like Zelle or CashApp, but works between most, if not all, big and small Canadian banks. In other words, you are still sending/receiving fiat to/from a stranger which is recorded and tracked by the banks. I assume the same is the case for other countries, where the fiat side always deals with some sort of bank transfers. The risk here is you might be sending/receiving fiat to/from a person of interest and gets unwanted attention from government departments as a result.
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being on chain only means that the service is only reasonable to use under a low fee environment and fees get quite expensive when fees are high (like right now or maybe even higher in the future)
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it is not the most straight forward / user friendly service to use. A computer is required and you probably need to be somewhat technically competent to use it (at least know your way around installing software and tweaking settings).
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you need to first have some bitcoin in order to use Bisq, because you need bitcoin to post as collateral for your trade. As such, it is not a tool for onboarding people completely new to bitcoin, unless they have a bitcoiner friend to post collateral for them.
I've used Bisq regularly for about a year, but have switched earlier this year to bullbitcoin non-kyc cash deposits for stacking. Feel free to ask any questions you have about using Bisq and I'll try my best to answer them based on my user experience.
the problem with e-transfers is they can be charged back by up to 90 days.
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Yes, there is the risk of e-transfer chargebacks. The thing that prevents Bisq users from doing that is probably the fact that Bisq is a reputation based system. Although you are anonymous on the system, you use the same nym all the time. You can see how many trades you've completed with the same trading partner and you can see how long (how many days) a trading partner's payment method had been "signed". To have a "signed" payment method, you need to used said payment method to buy bitcoin from a "signed" peer and wait 30 days after the trade is complete. As such, your reputation takes time to build up and it might matter if people want to do regular trades on the system; thus, disincentivizing rug-pulls. There are limits to not "signed" payment methods. See this page for details.
Comparatively, I find Robosats to be much more prone to fiat chargeback / rug-pulls, because you start with a new robot token each time and there is no indication of reputation. But I've only bought on both Bisq and Robosats, never tried selling; in other words, I had always been the guy sending fiat to other people and been the side able to pull off the rug-pull / able to initiate fiat chargebacks. As such, I cannot speak to how often fiat chargebacks happen; at least I've never done it.
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How could a non-Canadian theoretically use BullBitcoin to purchase non-kyc sats?
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The main criteria is to be physically in Canada, because the fiat funding is through physical cash deposit at any Canada Post post office (or you can pay with debit, but what is the point if you use debit?). You just bring your nym account QR code to the post office, tell the clerk you want to pay to this QR code, and hand them cash. The clerk usually don't ask you any questions, nor should they ask you for any ID, and you fund your account with cash, non-kyc. I did have a clerk ask me for ID once (out of probably more than 15 times), and I told her I forgot my ID at home and never went back to that post office location again. To deposit cash, you can be a Canadian, or a permanent resident, or an international student, or a visiting tourist, or an alien disguised as a human, you get the idea.
The tradeoff is deposit limit, as non-kyc cash deposits are limited to under $1k CAD per deposit and under $7k weekly. If you're a big time stacker, this might not work for you.
The following is copy and pasted from bullbitcoin's site
Daily/Weekly limits LIMITED : $999.99 per transaction, $999.99 daily & $6,999.93 Weekly. VERIFIED : $1,000.00 per transaction, $3,000.00 daily & $21,000.00 Weekly.
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Never thought I'd be jealous of a Canadian.
Joking aside, you know of any other services like Bull Bitcoin outside Canada?
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There are always bitcoin ATMs, many of which only ask you for a phone number, and they are all over the world. However, I heard they usually sell coins at a premium, but I've never used them so I cannot deny or confirm that.
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Good rundown. Thanks.
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