How far must a newcomer go to be considered a real adopter of Bitcoin?
What do you think? Are we "settling" for less, as some bitcoiners may think?
How would you define Bitcoin adoption, in the most basic sense?
CUSTODIAL WALLET + USING PUBLIC NODES27.7%
SELF CUSTODY + USING PUBLIC NODES21.5%
SELF CUSTODY + PERSONAL NODE26.2%
OTHER (EXPRESS NUANCE IF YOU DARE)24.6%
65 votes \ poll ended
I think the technical "implementation" of one's adoption is secondary to their mindset.
Everyone running a full node is a pipe dream, at least for now, perhaps forever. You can't expect everyone to shell out a couple hundred $ for Raspberry Pi or an old computer + invest the time and effort to maintain their channels etc. to be considered a "proper user" of Bitcoin. Fiat system does not require this, so this expectation would actually be counter to adoption as defined by "number of users".
Regarding self-custody, I think we should acknowledge that custodial wallets are great for onboarding new users. It would therefore be hypocritical to discount users of these services as "adopters".
And custodial solutions are completely acceptable for holding small amounts. It's a risk management excercise of convenience (funds held on a well-connected node) vs NYK-NYC.
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Btw, I should clarify that voted for "Other - nuance" because I don't think "custodial + public nodes" is sufficient. I don't consider Salvadoreans who use the government custodial wallet to receive bitcoin but convert everything to dollars "adopters". Hence, mindset over implementation.
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It's a long journey, custodial wallets are generally the first steps. I think ultimately you should always be working towards self-custody and running your own node.
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I do think custodial wallets are extremely unnecessary as a first step tho
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Ease of transition.
  • one app does all the things
  • no startup costs
  • attach email to your account
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Ease of rugpull
  1. Password reuse results in loss of funds
  2. Custodian bankruptcy results in loss of funds
  3. Social engineering customer support results in loss of funds
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Yep. But that's beside the point. Most nocoiners who dip their toes in our waters won't go full self custody on first try.
Most like easy custodial solutions to start out with.
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Its so unnecessary, because its actually so frusteratingly easy to just skip this step.
Padawan: Tesnet play Bitcoin. Learn how to use a wallet with no risk: https://github.com/thunderbiscuit/padawan-wallet
Lightsats: Gift Bitcoin and if the person you're gifting to doesn't withdraw them after a certain date, get them back: https://lightsats.com/
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I agree to some extent, but these two you linked are not "one click done" phone apps. That is how most people today approach anything new.
Phoenix for me is as close to one click done an non custodial app can be, and convincing my friend to use it ended when he realized it costs to start using it and he had to write some words down.
He did however use WoS without complaints.
At a later date he transitioned to phoenix because he learned more.
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Luke is a funny guy.
I was using WoS to orange pill as the experience is amazing. I hoped that it would show how fast, cheap & easy bitcoin can be. It would generate interest first & then they would go down the the education path.
Truth is very few people I tried to orange pill have adopted bitcoin. There one guy that has & has been DCAing throughout this bear market, but unfortunately still hasn't looked into it much.
So adopting bitcoin is a scale & there are a number of scales like security or spendability. It takes time.
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The big issue is that people don't understand the problem that bitcoin is here to solve. No talk of fast, cheap, easy transactions or the perks of bitcoin does much to convey bitcoin's value to normies, since "muh [centralized solution] can do that too!"
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There really is a lot to learn. That's why its going to take a long time, & most still will never understand
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To be a real adopter you MUST understand custody and the trade offs for using anything other than your own custodial solution - onboarding folks to WOS might have been a good first step for noobs, but you are doing them a disservice by not explaining the risks that come with a non-sovereign solution
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Yep, think this is where I land. Custodial is a good bridge for newcomers, but also a good opportunity to explain the dangers of custodianship
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All of the above so long as one does not stop until they learn and practice self custody and run a Bitcoin full node.
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If real means ideal then Luke is right.
I tend to think of adoption as using Bitcoin to do a job. I know bitcoiners living on a bitcoin standard that donโ€™t run a full node.
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Also Luke has 8 children. What does he know about adoption? ๐Ÿ˜
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lmfao wow did not realize that
he's gotta start the dashjr fedimint
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Lets not do purity tests ... ANY form of adoption is good (which has varying degrees by itself).
get someone through the door and then they will chose (via learning) which path to take and how to take it ... no need to impose anything on anyone (anyways, no one can do that so lets just stop with imposing things)
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I disagree with Luke. Just wanting some qualifies as adoption.
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Just using Bitcoin in any situation you would normally use other forms of currency
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Exactly
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Custodial in the sense of community fedimints or ecash makes more sense than these big global wallets.
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capital B, run a full node. lowercase, use btc as money in any way.
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Adopting Bitcoin / Sending bitcoin!
Right?
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For custodial use of bitcoin to not be considered 'adoption', you would also have to believe that fiat has also never been adopted, since nobody is living purely off physical cash.
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tell that to my drug ring bro
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Yeah theyre the only real true adopters! ๐Ÿ˜‚
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I think everyone has their own thresholds and tradeoffs. So how about treating people as adults and letting them to take their own decisions and responsibility for themselves. Bitcoin does what it has to do and doesn't care about the rest!
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Wisdom in these words ser, expel the gatekeepers
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1 sat in self custody. The rest is just a paper promise!
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this. just get off zero
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I think these are all examples of Bitcoin adoption tailored to each individuals comfort level handling their finances. Of course I hope it trends to people using personal nodes and self custody, but custodial wallets onboard a lot of new users to the bitcoin ecosystem.
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Self custody and personal node will be my best example of Bitcoin Adoption
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Well I use the sats I accumulate here and store in Muun to buy gift cards from Bitrefill. Maybe it isnโ€™t as fancy as using nodes and custodial wallet, but if no fiat is ever involved, Iโ€™d like to think that Iโ€™m an adopter too haha
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that's adoption thru and thru brotha! no one makes the rules
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Haha will keep at it then
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A minority of node runners using self custody BTC/LN and the rest catch up on their own at their own pace. Define minority however you want but it's smaller than the laggards.
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Pay my weekly pizza in Bitcoin.
In fact, I just orange pilled my favorite pizza napoletana shop :) Next step: grocery and bartender.
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That's huge, hopefully the pizza shop starts OPing their other customers next ๐Ÿ˜‚
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I'm really happy because after receiving the first payments he called me asking more info about how to send a transaction, because he want to pay some suppliers in Bitcoin. This is the live adoption!
After you keep your Bitcoin in your wallet with your own private key, the wallet is open source
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To me adoption is truly reach when merchant are all collecting payment in Bitcoin and any Grandma can make a Bitcoin transaction
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whats your time horizon on that happening?
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I will give in 4 decades as most of the presently people using it now and are in their 30s will have gradually become grandparents
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that feels about right, by that point every generation on the planet will be tech natives
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Laws must be reformed. The taxes are needed for basic services like health, education, transportation etc. Paying with Bitcoin makes people uncertain. It's beautiful. But part of the revenues should be collected for services. Bitcoin adoption occurs when laws are restructured to prevent bribery and corruption.
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Taxes are MOST DEFINITELY not needed..
But yes, people are struck with uncertainty about bitcoin. But honestly about money in general -- and governments have done all they can to instill that distrust and uncertainty in the people. Over time bitcoin will correct that
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If Luke Dashjr is a Bitcoin developer then Bitcoin adoption is using the software he contributed to. Unless using it by proxy/custodian for lack of a better term maybe that can qualify as adoption too.
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Custodial BTC > Custodial-Anything-Else
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To me the interesting part about adoption is more on the seller side than on the buyer side.
Both for OPs point (what node is the seller of goods using?) and also for your point (what anonymity, reporting, taxation, target demographic etc is used)
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bitcoin will explode when major merchants really start onboarding
Enjoy the % discounts they will throw at you to pay in BTC
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