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There's people that say generating credit in a bitcoinized world will be not needed anymore, because everyone will understand the PoW.
Today anti-globalization demonstrators carry signs that read “abolish usury” or “abolish interest.” But isn't the credit/debt game (outside the usury and high interest topic), since the barter days, what drove us to have the current market? (the original agora that nowadays is more virtual than IRL)
Would money lending be a legitimate and moral activity as long as it is conducted in a free market where both parties agree to the terms voluntarily and benefit from the exchange?
Isn't money only a tool of trade, a means to exchange value for value? Capitalism and its financial mechanisms, including lending, as the most moral and practical economic system, as it is based on voluntary trade and the principle of self-interest. Now what make the difference is this self-interest. Remove the self and understand it as only interest, or actually intent.
Shouldn't be this intent to make the difference itself? Should be the responsibility of the borrower to understand what's the final intent of the lender? ... and if not aligned with thy morals and ethics leave it, where is it to find a better one?
What if, in a pure context where trust is already built, you do it without any usury, fees or interests?
And if there's no trust already, could you use incremental amounts in short amounts of time (instead of big ones in a longer term) to build that trust between lender and borrower?
What if you do it for the goodness and greatness of the world facilitating a circular economy, instead your personal interest?
So many questions, eh! Well, I did not find much on this topic here in SN, and interested to know your thoughts
Thanks for sharing
Why would anyone lend without any compensation? That's all downside.
This whole conversation is silly. Credit markets are important to a functioning economy. People want to be able to buy a house and live in it before they've saved enough to buy it outright and people with savings want to get a return for lending it out. Why do people make a big deal out of this? It's just a voluntary market transaction.
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It's depends obviously on your values, until you change them you'll probably not able to understand the why a loan without usury or fees exists
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True, I will continue to think it's silly.
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I think lending will always exist even in a bitcoin world, especially the more it matures, if we get to a point where bitcoin is this global money/settlement network then your annual appreciation for holding it is tied to global GDP, improvements in goods and services over time, so those with capital will seek additional risk
The same can be said for moving Bitcoin into an L2 like lightning, people will do it to go and capture the potential yield, and maybe there will be other L2s that attract different people with different risk appetites, so maybe that sets the new Bitcoin lending rate and then people will need to compete with that rate to get people to borrow their bitcoin
I think most lending will rely on a trust model, even with bitcoin, because over-collateralized trustless models don't always provide the most efficient return on investment.
So I see banks/federations and other forms of multi-party collaboration to match capital, risk, and time preference playing their part in this and you can have these products enter markets it could never before
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So are you saying that lending Bitcoin (not assets or tokens baked by it) should be regulated to make everyone safe and the "investment" worth?
I'm not talking about institutions, nor banks or federations. P2P
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Lending is non violent entrepreneurial activity. If there is plenty of trust, rates may be insignificant.
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Very stupid question. You just conflated lending with giving gifts. Sure, gifts will still exist, and "lending" will be a gift from stupid people -- the key thing to understand about bitcoin is that stupid people lose their bitcoin, so stupidity is self-limiting, and lending falls into this category, which will make it vanish.
Some people may lend with the intention of creating slaves out of people whose businesses fail, and these people will be justly killed by their slaves. Slavery is not a valid contract.
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I agree that usury and applying feed to money lending it's basically slavery. Also agree on the stupidity point, but probably is more ignorance than stupidity.
When people know about what they are dealing with (Bitcoin) it will appreciate it, especially without any interest applied. However, education is also not affordable to many.
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TLDR: I will never lend my BTC, I will never take a loan for more BTC. I will simply use what I have, earn.
Satoshi created Bitcoin EXACTLY to avoid all these practices and make people think and start SAVING MONEY for later, instead of borrowing more than they can afford. Many will say that this is against advancing in technology and building more new stuff. But I am coming and ask: what are you need for your daily life, basics, to live a simple and healthy life? The answer is simple: energy, food, shelter. So why are we not concentrated into that only?
Why do we need 2-3 cars/ family, why do we need 2-3 houses /family, why do we need 2-3 phones/individual, why do we need to buy stuff and food that we really don’t need it and so on…? We are living in a world full of unnecessary stuff, just for the sake of consumerism.
Bitcoin is changing the mentality of consumerism into mentality of savings. Save today for having tomorrow enough to buy the stuff you really need it. Don’t stretch you legs more than the duvet.
Bitcoin WILL PUMP FOREVER in value! No need for anything else than just HODL and use it when you need it most. More you HODL = more value will have in the future. Do not sell your BTC to billionaires! Is the only way to keep them away!
If you want to risk your money (and is a huge risk in this) for just few % of fake interest (based on fractional reserve), is up to you, but at least I did what I can and warned you about this.
Please watch these 2 amazing videos: Concursante – Spanish movie (EN subs), with a guy that won the lottery but he entered into total debt, just because of the evil system.
The American Dream – animated documentary about how the american dream is actually a debt nightmare.
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BTW: your response does not cover any of my questions, just neglet them to impose your maxi view of the world, that I totally understand and respect.
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"maxi view" -- hey shitcoiner piece of shit, fuck off, no one has to answer to you or the dumb shit you say while you thinking you're being incredibly clever, you "moderate" midwit
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Thank Darth, now I know the real one is back. Appreciate your love
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Not the first time it's been suggested, but as I have said, I'm not Darth
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You asked:"What are the/your Ethics & Morality behind lending Bitcoin?" I answered to that question.
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I'll take your first response as the good one, without any further dive. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts
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In the current system there's no trust, that's why we ended up on this nightmare loop.
Keep away consumerism, interest percentages, idiocracy and the utopia to have to have this bitcoin price (based on what? the USD?) going up forever...
What's your thoughts, now?
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