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30 sats \ 14 replies \ @harrr 1 Nov 2023 \ on: Why Shunning a Bitcoin ETF is More Important than Celebrating it bitcoin
You sound like average IT nerd. I get it, your computer and coin is secure. For the average person taking self custody of their coin is more risky than having it at an established financial institution that already has trillions of USD and doesn't need to scam you.
You think people are stupid and don't understand risk, yet you're the one who doesn't seem to understand what it is for others.
No dude! This is a toxic and antithetical message you're spreading here. You are enabling the ETF as an attack vector by spreading this message. I understand that self custody can be overwhelming at first but it really is objectively easy to store your bitcoin safely. Spread that message! Practice self custody, teach self custody.
Why are you even here dealing with bitcoin at all? If you're here to protect your own wealth and pursue sovereignty using non-censorable, unconfiscatable, borderless money, are you not incentivized to take actions that strengthen that tool? Like encouraging decentralization through the spread of other sovereigns? If you are seeking freedom through bitcoin you are shooting yourself in the foot by doing anything BUT discouraging the use and proliferation of an ETF.
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Oh fuck off, I don't need your permission to be here or to own bitcoin. You're as insufferable as a vegan. The fact that you think you can tell me and others what to do shows that you're an enemy of freedom.
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Har har are you trolling or do you need some serious help learning how to self-custody right now?
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Phoenix and ZEUS (from 0.8.0 onwards) are incredibly easy to use self-custody wallets with Lightning functionality (the latter has built-in Lightning and on-chain balances if you use their embedded node).
This fucker is being a contrarian just to be, or is actually this fucking stupid. Point and laugh either way.
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Those are for spending money. I think the nature of the discussion was around secure savings vaults.
This is why I focus on things like Liana wallet rather than talking about lightning network wallets.
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Lol, you think bitcoin on an OS that you don't control and that can be exploited is more secure than an ETF? Maybe you should stick to an ETF.
Or are you trying to make that the average person should run the own lightning node and connect to it from a mobile wallet? Like I said, you IT nerds are clueless about the real world.
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An airgapped signing device is as simple as transferring files from a digital camera to a home computer.
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This is a much better argument than simply insulting people who want to use ETFs, thanks.
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I run CalyxOS, not stock.
I use ZEUS's recently introduced embedded Lightning node (which is why I mention 0.8.0, and not older versions which act as node controllers) for full self-custody both on-chain, and on Lightning.
And lastly, I only use an on-ramp (Spritz) for necessary bills I can't pay with native Bitcoin.
I never thought I'd say this two years, but have fun staying fucking poor. And learn to bait better.
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Like I said, you IT nerds are clueless about the real world. "Install a custom OS on your phone - more secure than ETF". Hahahaha. Btw, bitcoin already made me rich, but thanks for playing.
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Now, I know the trouble with quoting Satoshi. Bitcoin is ultimately a social construct. It is what we decide that it is, but if Bitcoin is not held by the people who use it, if it succumbs to the failings of gold, then it holds no purpose whatsoever. Traditional accounting systems for gold would do just fine.
However, it is actually the EASIEST thing in the entire world to hold for yourself and that is the hope we've put into it for success. Evidence counter to that is evidence counter to our hope for Bitcoin itself.
It IS easy though. Liana wallet for example encourages multi-sig with many devices. It's idea is that if you lose a key, you have a backup somewhere else.
We have companies dedicated to teaching people how to hold it themselves too:
https://www.thebitcoinway.com/
Liana, Unchained, and River all also have hand holding self-custody training.
Padawan Wallet is a testnet Bitcoin wallet designed to teach you how to use Bitcoin without risking any money.
While I will admit, that I wish for more tooling designed around this initial teaching phase, I counter myself by pointing out how much effort, how much focus is put on custodians rather than building out those tools. It seems everyone wants to hold onto your money for you. Everyone wants to tell you that its too hard and that you shouldn't bother to try. Only Bitcoiners who oftentimes lost money from counter-party risk themselves try to correct that problem.
"If You Don't Hold it, You Don't Own it" as the gold bugs say, but that's exactly the reason the gold bugs ran into trouble. Unlike Bitcoin, its too difficult to hold, verify against counterfeit, and exchange without a counter-party
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this is a great reply. thank you. you have way more patience than me. I would have said something like -
lol remember to ask daddy's permission first before using the big grownup money
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stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.