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90 sats \ 3 replies \ @BlokchainB 29 Jul 2023 \ parent \ on: Let's discuss El Salvador's Volcano 🌋Tokens. Here's ABSOLUTELY everything: bitcoin
Not registered ones. Comparing this offering to no KYC anything on ETH is laughable.
No one ever thinks about the other side of securities laws. The fact that you are investing in an enterprise Makes KYC optional because if that company is crappy and they go bankrupt the courts use KYC to chop up and assets the company had to pay out its creditors. KYC for bitcoin is ridiculous but as an investment requirement let bitcoiners decide if they wish KYC to invest in an enterprise.
While I am all for the protection of privacy but we still need a way to identify criminals and bring them to justice. Even without governments a market for crime fighting will exist it would only take time before someone developed tools to solve crimes.
What you propose is even more ridiculous in the modern age, on the website you are on, with secure money flying around the place through zaps, using pseudonymous names. It's a living contradiction, or cognitive dissonance.
Register the company with the state, fine. I get it. Where real assets and real property exist in physical reality, the state or some other mafia will be there. An argument can be made they protect us from other less desirable mafias. Let the company itself register with the state, and carry out the insurance policy in the case of bankruptcy that you mention.
But those post bankruptcy assets can be divided up and distributed TO THE PSEUDONYMOUS accounts. The amount these bitcoin addresses invested, is available to all.
What is the POINT of all this "innovation" in pgp signing, bitcoin script signing, bolt addresses and cryptography at large , all this shit people have been working on for a decade towards various shades of trustless peer exchange, if this basic ability escapes the mention of everyone in bitcoin.
While I am all for the protection of privacy but we still need a way to identify criminals and bring them to justice. Even without governments a market for crime fighting will exist it would only take time before someone developed tools to solve crimes.
You are mentally ill. If you believe the only way to pursue justice and identify a crime is to track every dollar and everywhere it goes, you are a deeply sick individual who needs help. LEO's have many tools to track down real crimes. You know, things like investigations and due process, with evidence. Condemning everyone to a financial panopticon for the violent crimes of a very few number of people , very very few or society would not be able to function at all.
What you actually mean is tracking down and extorting rent from non-violent "criminals", and doing so in the most socially destructive and lazy way, total monetary control. If this is your belief, why are you even in bitcoin. Sell your BTC for worldcoin or a CBDCS and Get recked.
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First off chill. Let’s be civil about this no need for naming calling.
Comparing zaps to funding business ventures is ridiculous. Sure no one cares if you sling a few cents around but you best believe if millions were moving around on this site it would be highly regulated plus the sats that are used on this site aren’t even yours until you send them to an LN wallet you own the keys for.
“ But those post bankruptcy assets can be divided up and distributed TO THE PSEUDONYMOUS accounts. The amount these bitcoin addresses invested, is available to all.”
I push back against this. In my opinion the reason why investors are KYC’d is to prevent fraud and flywheel scams. That’s the problem with pseudonyms one person can own 100 Bitcoin addresses across 100 private keys with a simple python script and easily create pump and dumps.
“What is the POINT of all this "innovation" in pgp signing, bitcoin script signing, bolt addresses and cryptography at large , all this shit people have been working on for a decade towards various shades of trustless peer exchange, if this basic ability escapes the mention of everyone in bitcoin.”
This tech was created to persevere privacy and property rights for the individual not society at mass. Trust is still needed period. You are trusting @k00b right now not to rug your SN sat stack. While some interesting concepts have developed about create trust amongst pseudonymous people it still far away from being implemented in real institutions in the real world stuff that takes real skill like flying a plane.
“You are mentally ill. If you believe the only way to pursue justice and identify a crime is to track every dollar and everywhere it goes, you are a deeply sick individual who needs help. LEO's have many tools to track down real crimes. You know, things like investigations and due process, with evidence. Condemning everyone to a financial panopticon for the violent crimes of a very few number of people , very very few or society would not be able to function at all.”
I said absolutely nothing about tracking dollars. What I said is people who are motivated enough to develop tools to track bitcoin payments to solve crime will emerge especially if a victim of such crime has deep pockets. Government or not it’s the constant tug of war between safety and privacy thus have various degrees of tradeoffs.
“ What you actually mean is tracking down and extorting rent from non-violent "criminals", and doing so in the most socially destructive and lazy way, total monetary control. If this is your belief, why are you even in bitcoin. Sell your BTC for worldcoin or a CBDCS and Get recked.”
Now you are just putting words in my mouth. Sorry I don’t share your view of the world that every i do and touch has to be no-KYC focused. As the cypherpunks say the individual should have the choice of what information and data they wish to share with the world. If you don’t want to KYC for these volcano bonds then don’t. Those who do well it’s their life and their choice and they deserve what ever comes with that decision. Riches or complete surveillance.
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You can use > before a line to indent a quote fyi.
if millions were moving around on this site it would be highly regulated
you say without any evidence. I have evidence Billions are moving around with NO regulation. In a worst, trustless environment then investing in El Salvador.
This tech was created to persevere privacy and property rights for the individual not society at mass
Society is made up of individuals. You cannot show me "society" I can show you an individual. Removed from Society an individual still exists.
That’s the problem with pseudonyms one person can own 100 Bitcoin addresses across 100 private keys with a simple python script and easily create pump and dumps.
That does not matter when you are investing in Volcano Bonds. All that matters is that the government and the company pay back whatever the result of a bankrupcy proceeding is. If 100 accounts owned by one person pump ES bonds, it does not change the fundamentals of the project or the abilty to refund those accounts. Pump and dumps are only a concern for NON bitcoin shitcoins, annoymity is not. It's like saying a person can only own 1 oz of gold and if they own 3 they are pumping gold. It doesn't make sense to say that.
it still far away from being implemented in real institutions in the real world stuff that takes real skill like flying a plane
false
Government or not it’s the constant tug of war between safety and privacy thus have various degrees of tradeoffs.
yeah, the tradeoff is tracking funds, you advocated for the government having the ability to KYC individuals to prevent Crime. Which is Tracking. You don't even know what your are saying. That's ok but learn how and why bitcoin started.
If you don’t want to KYC for these volcano bonds then don’t. Those who do well it’s their life and their choice and they deserve what ever comes with that decision.
I agree, but you were stating that it was a necessity to pay back investors, it's not. You do not need KYC to pay back investors any more than you need to know the real names of a silent partner in a corporation. KYC creates a potential for harm down the road that does not need to exist. Like signing up for random online lotteries and wondering why your email and password are on a hackers database.
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