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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @KoreaComK 26 Jul 2023 \ parent \ on: What's something bitcoiners do that HURTS adoption more than it helps? bitcoin
Of course not, I just showed that his arrogance in this phrase "WTF? Maybe we should be happy that the 'ordinal wizards' have finally got the ball rolling" just denotes that you say that these stages are thrown from a Mankiw book or you of any other mainstream economist, when the truth was a summary of Ammous.
I say it again: What defines something to be MoE is the consensus on using it as currency. By his simple definition of "if I transfer bitcoin to someone, then he is MoE", then, there was no barter in society. After all, at that time, everything was MoE, however, by definition of what an MoE is, its concept is wrong. MoE for you may be that, but it is not what the consensus is for other people.
This does not invalidate what I said.
What defines whether something is MoE is the consensus on its use given a society. I can't say that a chicken is an MoE just because I used it to buy my neighbor's eggs. For it to be an MoE, the society where I am inserted must also accept it, so that it can be given as an MoE.
Example: Bitcoin is an MoE in El Salvador. He is not an MoE in the US or Brazil.
I say it again: What defines something to be MoE is the consensus on using it as currency.
I think this is the central point of our discussion.
What defines whether something is MoE is the consensus on its use given a society.
I see. I was calling MoE whatever two parties decide to use to transact. This seems like moving the goalposts.
My thesis is that bitcoin's value is dependent on its ability to be used for transactions. If the Lightning network doesn't function and the base layer is clogged, then bitcoin cannot be used regardless of what the "consensus" is. "Consensus" is meaningless if the transaction cannot be concluded because of a technical problem.
But assuming that the whole society has to reach consensus:
Example: Bitcoin is an MoE in El Salvador.
No, it's not. Most merchants in El Salvador don't accept bitcoin. By your definition I can say that the US Dollar is the only MoE in El Salvador at this moment.
So my questions are:
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How is a society supposed to reach consensus on bitcoin as MoE? Gresham's Law dictates that people will choose the weaker currency as the MoE; therefore it is impossible that bitcoin ever becomes MoE.
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How is bitcoin supposed to ever be used as a MoE if nobody develops the necessary infrastructure (mining, software development, Lightning nodes, channel liquidity, merchant apps, wallets...) because the only thing that matters is HODLing?
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Do you even want bitcoin to become MoE?
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No, it's not. Most merchants in El Salvador don't accept bitcoin. By your definition I can say that the US Dollar is the only MoE in El Salvador at this moment.
Using the premise that most people use dollars instead of Bitcoin, then ok. Bitcoin is not MoE.
How is a society supposed to reach consensus on bitcoin as MoE? Gresham's Law dictates that people will choose the weaker currency as the MoE; therefore it is impossible that bitcoin ever becomes MoE.
First, we let people acquire bitcoin for its SoV power. Then, over time, people will slowly use it as a MoE. Currently, there are people and companies that use it, so it is purely a matter of time for the whole society to use it.
In truth no. During the days of gold, silver and copper were also used, but later, with the loss of their SoV, they all succumbed to the use of gold as MoE. As I said, it's a matter of calm and time.
How is bitcoin supposed to ever be used as a MoE if nobody develops the necessary infrastructure (mining, software development, Lightning nodes, channel liquidity, merchant apps, wallets...) because the only thing that matters is HODLing?
I didn't say the only thing that matters is Hodling. I'm saying we're in the SoV moment, that's all.
"Bitcoin is not yet a currency. It's in the store of value phase. It's no use forcing him to be a currency, if he's still at a level prior to that."
You creating solutions for it to be MoE does not mean you are forcing it, you are just anticipating an inevitable need that will appear. Currently, hodler solutions are more used than PoS solutions. This is a fact. Over time, this will reverse. My point, again, is to wait and let bitcoin transform from SoV to MoE.
Do you even want bitcoin to become MoE?
This is not up to me and yes, it will become like me or not. But I would really like it to become, especially with merchants using LN instead of onchain transactions.
The main post says: SPEND & REPLACE is what we need to be shouting in the fiat + bitcoin convoluted world we currently live in, imo.
I disagree. Swap "need" for "should" and the sentence gets a little better. There are people who want to rush bitcoin so that it becomes UaC soon, but it is not by forcing it to go to the next stages that we will achieve this. First, we need to get everyone on the platform, ensure that society has a consensus at each stage of the process. Gold took almost 2000 years, we won't make it in just 20 years and we shouldn't
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*should
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There is no such thing as Gresham's Law...
Nicholas Copernicus wrote his Law in 1526, when Thomas Gresham was just a young kid...
#128857
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