Taxable event
reply
exactly. if the bill passes where purchases under $200 are tax free, I'll be using it daily wherever accepted
reply
Only if your coins are kyc or the merchant knows your identity.
reply
I rarely find places that accept bitcoin (yet) but if I do I get around the taxable event issue by using Strike. This goes straight from USD to their lightning address so there is no taxable event on my side. Also, prevents me from using my own bitcoin, though if I do that I just spend and replace.
reply
I spend on occassion, but the main reasons i dont are:
  • I don't have enough bitcoin for my whole family.
  • Its not accepted.
  • It is not ready to be spent as a medium of exchange (getting close though, I give it another 5 years).
reply
I don't have enough bitcoin for my whole family.
  • You can buy more bitcoin
Its not accepted.
  • Fair point.
It is not ready to be spent as a medium of exchange (getting close though, I give it another 5 years).
  • What is the issue?
reply
The issue is that I don't think lightning is ready. Custodial LN like wallet of satoshi is an amazing experience, but its still fundamentally not your bitcoin. Phoenix is good but expensive 0.4%. OBW is great, but has pretty much been abandoned. Blixt... Getting better.
These things take time. They will get better over time with other scaling solutions & improvements to LN
reply
Absence of good tech solution sounds good to me. I hope that Ark could bring some more accessible non-custodial solutions.
reply
Yes
I mean if we really imagine the future of Bitcoin as a MoE it needs tohave the feel of wallet of satoshi/cashu, but be in your custody & free or almost free to send
reply
3 words. Many information. Number Go Up.
reply
That should prevent you paying with fiat too. CBecause its the same situation. You have less BTC
reply
Why pay 1% or whatever fees to buy BTC with fiat and then pay with it at an unknown premium, if you can pay with fiat directly and get cashback?
But don't worry. More merchants will start accepting BTC in the next bull run, because many people will want to dispose of their sats without going through exchanges, and if there are tax advantages to that (e.g. tax free <$200 purchases), they'll have even more reasons.
reply
Befriend a bitcoin earner and you can have it for 0%
reply
I dont buy BTC.
reply
Well, if I could photosynthesize I wouldn't pay for food, but until then, I need to survive and have as little comfort as possible. :D However, I live in the philosophy of minimalism precisely because of this.
reply
Why don’t you buy more bitcoin then?
reply
I buy, but I don't spend it. In fact, I pay with bitcoin, but in some specific conditions as I said here #204545. :)
reply
Sorry but you didn’t answer why don’t you buy more? 🙂
reply
Oh, sorry. I don't buy more because a I don't have any money left. Everything that I don't spend in day by day, I use to buy more.
reply
Ok. That means you are saving, right? But when you purchase something you use bitcoin since you have no fiat anymore?
reply
Not really. I pay using credit card. When I receive my salary I pay my credit card from the last month and the rest I buy bitcoin.
reply
Got it. Thanks. I never use credit so I didn’t understand at first.
192 sats \ 1 reply \ @q 18 Jul 2023
No reason, I always asks my friends on routine when I have a debt in ifat if they want payment in bitcoin or cash.
If a website accepts bitcoin I pay with bitcoin.
I always replace with new sats in my stash after spending.
reply
So you pay with bitcoin. And regarding the stash. Do you try to achieve some ratio between fiat and bitcoin. Or how do you think about that?
reply
Getting doxed by criminals.
reply
I think this is the biggest problem of all.
reply
Wha do you mean by that? Can you elaborate little bit?
reply
reply
Holy Shit......
That's a crazy list.
But this can happen with any asset class. I don't understand why spending Bitcoin makes you higher risk??
reply
How much could you lose if someone robs you and doesn't know you have bitcoins? Probably what you have in your wallet, plus whatever money you have in your account that is highly liquid. How much could you lose if someone robs you and knows you have bitcoin?
reply
I understand... but I also don't....
It's just money. People paying for things with fiat at the grocery store is a signal to thieves that they have fiat money. And yet, we don't see people targeted just cuz they spent some paper at a local store.
What if I get paid in Bitcoin, but I'm still mostly working paycheck-to-paycheck? Even if my stack were small, I would still use Bitcoin for transactions, simply because it's more ethical and generally superior money. How does spending Bitcoin alert anyone to how big a stack is?
I was just at a Bitcoin meetup and I'm fairly certain most of the people there had less than 1 BTC in cold storage....
reply
How does spending Bitcoin alert anyone to how big a stack is?
You don't alert HOW MUCH you have, but the act of HAVING bitcoin.
Currently, few people own bitcoin. It being an asset that cannot be censored or stopped makes it an excellent asset that can be forcibly expropriated from a person and passed to the bad guys without you being able to do anything.
In the future, when more people have it, and the fact that you are a bitcoiner does not raise suspicions, that is, being a bitcoiner is commonplace, this will not be a problem and consequently there will be no problem for people to use it more for everyday purchases.
reply
Ok. That’s a good one
reply
I said this to someone who asked if they could sell their house for more if they accepted Bitcoin for it:
Is your reason for accepting Bitcoin purely to charge more? If you look at BISQ or robosats or any p2p exchange, people pay more for Bitcoin there than KYC exchanges. Even the KYC exchanges charge a smaller premium over spot or a commission fee.
If you look at how much it would cost you to acquire that much Bitcoin, you'd understand why it would make more sense if you were offering a discount if Bitcoin were used. As someone who uses Bitcoin to actually buy things, I can tell you generally speaking discount or not, I'm not enthusiastic to give up my Bitcoin to someone who doesn't want the Bitcoin in the first place and is just going to convert to dollars. I'd rather just give you what you want in the first place which I don't value.
If however, you do value Bitcoin, I feel the need to add you to my network. In other words, you've gained a recurring customer who will market on your behalf.
reply
Merchants don’t accept it.
reply
Please ask them so they feel the demand 🙏
reply
lack of a good reason. I only spend bitcoin when "I have to"
reply
What about that you don’t need fiat when you pay with bitcoin?
reply
yeah, but fiat is cheap shit, I would RATHER spend that these days than bitcoin
reply
Why do you have any fiat then?
reply
i don't think you understand. if people will allow me to pay them manure, rather than gold, why would I give up my gold when manure is...plenty...
reply
If you pay with manure you need to store manure, transfer manure.. and you will stinck like manure 🙂
reply
so will the person accepting it as payment, so no big deal
reply
"I am a cuck and I comply with every tax law. Even on Nostr, I am reporting all my zaps I receive as income to make sure I pay the IRS. I obey what the state tells me is the law. I am short bitcoin and hold large amounts of US dollars so I am never in a position where I would feel like spending Bitcoin -- I just learned about Gresham's law yesterday, and I like thinking what I am doing is incredibly clever and it gives me an opportunity to share this law that I learned -- have I told you how much I love every law?"
reply
reply
The only prevention for me is merchants accepting bitcoin. If they do, I use it. Then I buy more at the equivalent amount or more. Spend and replace.
reply
How much fiat you want to keep? ( in %)
reply
0%, ideally. I do have to keep some fiat on hand for rent, utilities, and groceries, unfortunately. It's probably around 1% of my total wealth.
reply
Why fight Gresham's law?
reply
Have you heard about Thier's law? Gresham's law is only one of the effects. Why don't you pay with grains → you should according to Gresham's law since it have worse properties then fiat.
And when you pay with fiat you force yourself to keep fiat in the future...
reply
Who says I keep any fiat around?
reply
If you have no fiat you have to pay with bitcoin, right?
reply
Not really. I don't know in what world you live in, but around me nobody takes bitcoin directly. I don't loose my sleep over it though. Whenever I need some cash I just sell some sats and pay whatever I need to.
And yes, because I do it P2P I do need to keep a fiat buffer. But it's a small one.
Would it be slightly better if everybody just took my sats directly? sure. Is it a big issue for me that would lead me to waste precious sats? no.
reply
My point is that it wouldn't be wasting of your sats. Because you could lower the fiat buffer with every bitcoin payment.
reply
You might have a point. But mine is that bitcoin should be voluntary. I see little point in trying to shove it down everyone's throat. Sure, it's nice to educate folks, but there are people that will just not change their ways or see things the way we do, and that's fine.
Bitcoin should win on its own merits by having superior traits. In the meantime the best strategy for me is to hold it and spend softer money first. It's holders that give Bitcoin it's value after all. So I see it as a bit unproductive in trying to demonize them/us.
I will spend some sats here and there too. But this is more like charity, there's a component of experimentation too and in some cases, since I already have sats, the experience is actually better. However, I'm under no illusion; these small deeds aren't my primary contributions to the success of Bitcoin. That would be me using it as a savings vehicle.
reply
It's really difficult to find people willing to accept it. Lately I've been trying though.
reply
Please check the http://btcmap.org/ and participate 🙏
  • It's very easy to clean the data
  • Demand the bitcoin payment option from your merchants
reply
I have. Nothing in my 'hood. I also don't buy a lot of stuff generally. We have an architect designing an extension on the house; I'm trying to convince her to accept bitcoin.
reply
Unfortunately not a lot of retailers accept Bitcoin in the U.S. You also create taxable events in the U.S. with any purchases with any crypto as none are recognized as a currency...yet.
You also have to take in consideration, is that a lot of bitcoin holders see the current value of BTC is still in its infancy stage so sadly it makes more sense to spend a fiat currency that continues to lose its purchasing power, rather than an asset that is believed to only increase in value exponentially in the near future.
Personally, i dont see an increase in the spending of BTC for daily purchases until at least salaries are paid in BTC. My dream world is to never have to touch fiat ever again, its a slow sometimes painful process but i do believe most here will see that day unfold.
reply
Not enough merchants accept it.
reply
The main reason is that it's not accepted enough in my country. The second reason is that it generates a taxable event every time ...
reply
Its hard to use BTC when you have the feeling that you don't have enough of it.
But, they way to get more businesses accepting BTC is using it!!!
I'm not having any income in fiat at the moment, so no possible to buy more BTC.
reply
i still have fiat and i spend that first.
reply
Buy more bitcoin then
reply
I always pay in btc, and actively seek out places to spend it, as well as encourage places to accept it
I consider the use of central bank currencies to be shameful, why feed the beast?
reply
reply
reply
most people dont accept it.
reply
Because fiat is still a good medium of exchange and its rationally the better one to spend in over the short term
reply
At what manners is fiat better MoE?
  • better tech?
  • acceptance from merchants?
  • something else?
reply
Acceptance from anyone not just merchants, I hardly see this as a shocking claim
reply
Look up Gresham's Law.
reply
based on greshams law, the best thing you can do is immediately buy good money with your bad money
don't hold central bank currencies
zero fiat!
reply
Exactly
reply
Look up Thier's Law 🙂
reply
Gresham's Law in the short run, Thier's Law in the long run 🤠
reply
I'm in accumulation phase. No point in selling if I'm buying. Maybe when it hits $1m I'll retire and start selling.
reply
I have the same question as many times before. Why don't you convert more of your fiat into bitcoin?
reply
Not sure what you mean. I convert all my fiat I don't need to pay my bills into bitcoin. I can't convert more because I don't have more.
reply
My point is that if you are trying to #getonzero with fiat it is better to pay with bitcoin (if possible) so you don't have to bear that much fiat. And here I'm trying to understand how other people think about it.
reply
Because where I go daily it is cash only (Bitcoin and credit card not accepted in food markets, and Bitcoin not accepted in Supermarkets).
reply
Ask for bitcoin payment option 🙂
reply
Actually I live in South-East Asia and I just know how to say hello and thank you. But even if I knew I would not ask because I don't have SIM card for Internet. On GrapheneOS I would need to enable proprietary code to use a SIM cards AFAIK, so I don't have Internet. For maps I use openstreetmap offline and check everything at home before going out. So my use of smartphones is pretty much offline outdoors, which excludes Bitcoin or anythin which requires Internet. The day we will be able to pay with signatures offline with bluetooth, like what we do with multisig, and hardware wallets will be usable as a means of payment , I will take a look ;)
reply
You can still use NFC Bolt cards (or rings) but it's even harder to find a merchant who accepts Lightning contactless
reply
Amazing, I just saw the ring, it looks cool. I didn't know also for the Bolt cards. Thank you for the reference.
reply
this is the way!
down with GSM networks.
reply
Merchants don't actually want bitcoin and even if they did, they wouldn't hodl and find a way to pay their overhead with bitcoin. They just sell it for fiat at point of sale so even if I did pay in BTC, then I just have less bitcoin and the merchant has more fiat.
I will just keep stacking sats and paying merchants in fiat until they want bitcoin more than they want their collapsing fiat currencies.
For now, the best strategy is to stack sats and hodl until the price pumps so high that merchants (and their suppliers) actually want bitcoin.
reply
that's just false
more than half the merchants in my town keep the sats in BTC
reply
That's awesome to hear that your local economy is booming however I am speaking more generically.
Every time I ask a merchant that "accepts bitcoin" if I can pay with sats, they usually don't even know how to do it anymore or don't really have the infrastructure set up and maintained to accept them.
Glad to hear merchants are accepting where you live but almost every time I ask, the staff doesn't know how to accept sats as payment or it's a big technical problem to get it to work.
Looking forward to things advancing.
reply
I should probably clarify that I am directly responsible for on-boarding most of the merchants in my area
I would recommend starting with smaller, owner operated merchants when orange pilling in your vicinity. And offer to help with the configuration and setup (and support) of their POS system.
Furthermore, to visit regularly and pay with sats so they can see that it's a worthwhile service to keep up.
Once you get to around 10 merchants, start on the bigger stores and restaurants.
A good way to on-board a cafe or restaurant is to host your local bitcoin meetup there, in return accepting sats for one night, and offer to buy back the sats at the end of the evening.
Likely they'll research things and want to keep the sats, and keep accepting them after the event...
reply
"A good way to on-board a cafe or restaurant is to host your local bitcoin meetup there, in return accepting sats for one night, and offer to buy back the sats at the end of the evening."
That is probably one of the best strategies I have ever heard of. Thanks so much for your input. I will give this a try.
reply
Nice 👏 Where do you operate? Do you have more information what works good and what doesn't?
reply
I find it's best to visit a few times so they can see you are a regular, then bring up the Bitcoin topic
Also helps to show them BTCMap and mention the other businesses in the area
Having a BTC user group really helps as you can literally bring a whole bunch of customers to their door (if they will accept BTC as payment, of course)
In addition, go to a print shop and make some flyers, and stickers, for your newly on-boarded merchant(s). Stick them on BTC Map. And write a trip advisor review for them, mentioning bitcoin!
reply
it has no value. extremely undervalued.
for this reason and for losing purchasing power not accepted anywhere here
reply
Beyond online services (niche and otherwise) there's no practical way to use it day to day.
Regardless, I would (and plan on) use it as a way to mostly keep your savings yours and keep a fiat account open only for essentials (food, bills, etc.) while having the majority of your money in a cold wallet.
That's before factoring in Lightning for the few online retailers that accept Bitcoin natively and don't use it to swap for goods and services traditionally obtained through fiat (ala Cake Wallet).
reply
of course there's a way
build relationships with your local businesses
help them to get off zero
then you can spedn every day
reply
we are in a hoarding phase simply because hodlers believe BTC's purchasing power will increase dramatically so why pay with it instead of Fiat
I personally use sats to educate and onboard people
reply
U can accumulate more bitcoin if you use it for payment. In another words you don't need to have any value in fiat when you don't use it.
reply
It's the better of the monies I have. I like to spend dollars so I get rid of them. I'm short Bitcoin in that sense but asset allocation is also a thing.
I think it's much healthier to spend when the price is up enough to affect my allocation. If then I spot a bitcoin accepted here sign I won't just buy with bitcoin, I'll offer to sell to them.
What else is such a sign but a signal that the shop owners wish to increase their own allocation?
reply
Why do you care so much about merchants motivation? You benefit from paying with bitcoin since you don't need to bear any ugly fiat then.
reply
I know we need to create a circular economy and use it to illustrate that it can be a viable alternative to the corrupted fiat. ... BUT I am so sad for every sat I loose. Despite not having the opportunity in my d2d life, after I spent lightning e.g. for my coffee my FOMO would immediately kick in and get me buying the double amount I just spent </3